I didn't think he was dumping on his wife. He was simply remarking that they have been in counseling for a year and she has yet to own her sexual feelings and urges. He needs this to change.
He owned the fact that he is allowing himself to do some stupid things to nurse his ego, but the fact remains that he needs her to step up to the plate.
I don't know that Dave is, I think others are dumping on her... it could be I'm being overly sensitive as one of the only LDs on the board.
Quote: I didn't think he was dumping on his wife. He was simply remarking that they have been in counseling for a year and she has yet to own her sexual feelings and urges. He needs this to change.
By his updates, she HAS stepped up to the plate. She HAS made progress, she HAS made efforts. They CAN work together. When I was going through my little tantrum last week, y'all showed up and said, 'yes, he's being an ass. Now go fix it.'
Is there a difference because she is LD and my H is HD? It's easier for you all to see his POV and allow him his stupid mistakes because 99.9% of the people here are HD?
Quote: He owned the fact that he is allowing himself to do some stupid things to nurse his ego, but the fact remains that he needs her to step up to the plate.
Yep. She has. Give her some credit. They've obviously hit a road bump, and he needs to address it with her. Again. As one of the only LD people on this board, I sometimes feel that things are blamed on the 'evil LD state.' I'm sure it's the same way when you get with a group of women who sit around and bash their H's because they want sex, yet again... eye roll... I know what you mean, sister... and they proceed to justify their own behaviors and expectations by laying it at the feet of a generalization...
No, no, I meant that she needs to step up to the plate re: initiation. The crappy invites have got to go. I agree with you that she has stepped up to the plate in terms of being willing.
But he is asking her to own her part of it and STOP with the "if we don't go do this, you'll get crabby" stuff. That is so insulting I can't even find the words for it. It most certainly is a contributing factor in why he felt the need to pull that ridiculous bar stuff. She is refusing to show him that she desires him. He is choosing to wig out and seek other validation so I'm not defending his actions. But she is, without a doubt, contributing to the situation.
I believe that his trip back to the counselor is a way for him to get hold of his energy and begin channeling it back into the relationship. He has not said that he is disappointed with the changes she has made or that he is unhappy about her willingness to ML. He just needs her to own the fact that sometimes she wants to ML to him and it is not all about her being altruistic.
A need to feel sexually desirable to our mate is NOT an unrealistic expectation. And just because she has made strides in other areas does not get her off the hook in this one.
Having said that, I totally agree that the LD monster generalization is alive and well.
Been guilty of it myself a time or two. And ONLY two!
Quote: It most certainly is a contributing factor in why he felt the need to pull that ridiculous bar stuff. She is refusing to show him that she desires him. He is choosing to wig out and seek other validation so I'm not defending his actions. But she is, without a doubt, contributing to the situation.
I agree that her words were cutting and that needs to be addressed.
But.
If poorly chosen Action C (bar-shopping for flirtation) is a result of Contributing Factor B (wife using insensitive verbage that makes spouse feel undesirable), then can we consider the possibility of what Contributing Factor A (on AtlDave's part) that was the action/behaviors that precipitated wife's sucky comments?
In other words, letting someone's contributing factors be a justification of need to do something stupid or ill thought out, rather than directly addressing the original contributing factor is a copout.
She needs to be told of the damage that her remarks and attitude make. She needs to be called on it.
Quote: A need to feel sexually desirable to our mate is NOT an unrealistic expectation. And just because she has made strides in other areas does not get her off the hook in this one.
Where this gets wanky is when we want our spouse's desire to be tricked out in some paint-by-number expression of what constitutes desire - which oddly enough often seems to be a projection of one's own desire.
Isn't it just like an LD to take something like what you said, HP, and just turn it around?
I agree with HP, Dave. Your W's initiation methods really suck. Especially the, "I don't want you to get all weird on me, better let you poke me" one. Yuck.
As for not attracting women in the bar, Dave, you might as well face it: You're just getting too old for that.
Quote: Anyway, I just wanted to share something amusing...here's a couple lines that W has, ex-post-facto, claimed to be "initiating" LM with me.
Dave, how do you initiate?
MrsNOP -
It usually occurs in the middle of a hug or kiss in the kitchen or something. I might compliment her on how she looks but then I'll say something like "I really want to take you to bed". That's the way I'm comfortable initiating but I've had almost better feedback from her when I say something crass like "I just want to take you upstairs and f your brains out". She almost responds better to the second one. It's weird.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: take that as the joke I am SURE you meant it to be
Of course it was a joke. I should have known better than to joke with you so soon after justlvn pulled a corri on you.
You know, when my wife was criticizing me last night for feeling energized after leaving the counselors, rather than feeling "beat up," I actually thought to myself, "hmmm, about the only time I feel 'beat up' is after one of Corri's reamings of me." Just wanted to let you know that, at least by my W's standards, you are an effective counselor.
And you know that I think you're one of the best counselors around, too.
HOWEVER, if he does NOT stick up for himself and call her on her behavior by communicating with her, he is as much to blame for this as she is.
I brought up this topic because she used one of those lines the other night (I wasn't in the mood at that point anyways) but I DID call her on it. I said "you know, you seem to hand it off to me when you offer like that...so that it's 100% my decision. I really want you to tell me what *YOU* want. W: "but you know me, I have never been one to tell anyone what I want" Me: "is it because you don't want to ask or is because you don't really 'want'? Please figure out what you want so I can know who you are better. lyu.etc etc.". She then responded with "I want you to tuck me into bed".
And Corri, your other comment about me being sort of undesirable is a valid one but breaks down because she cuddles up, asks for 'tuck-ins', tells me that she's "totally diggin' me". She's either lying or just needs to learn some things.
This isn't a huge issue...we've come a long way and things are good. Ask her and she will say things are perfect. She said a few weeks ago "I really don't have anything I need to discuss with the C...do you? MAybe I'm blissfully delusional but I think things are good and we don't need to see her any more."
Quote:
Yep. She has. Give her some credit. They've obviously hit a road bump, and he needs to address it with her. Again. As one of the only LD people on this board, I sometimes feel that things are blamed on the 'evil LD state.' I'm sure it's the same way when you get with a group of women who sit around and bash their H's because they want sex, yet again... eye roll... I know what you mean, sister... and they proceed to justify their own behaviors and expectations by laying it at the feet of a generalization...
wow...I didn't mean to demonize her. In light of the progress we have made, I just felt compelled to post how her perception of what "initiation" is is a little bit off. She's made great strides this year. Proven that she's committed to me etc. Learned to be a partner. Reject respectfully. She even worked through an issue with her mom. But the ownership of her sexuality hasn't even come up on the radar despite the C telling her point blank "Dave needs to see you own your sexuality". But like I said...she thinks she's done with the C. I think she is slightly delusional. I bet I could be a much bigger sh!thead and she'd still think things were great but I'd rather go to the C.
But for the record....I"M NOT BLAMING HER FOR ANYTHING...SHE IS WHO SHE IS...IN ALL HER LD GLORY AND I LOVE HER DESPITE THE FACT. (it's just an irritating issue now...at least I don't see it as a poisonous one anymore).
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
