Thanks for everyone’s input (including offline) on the To Post or Not To Post dilemma. To clear things up, I’m not agonizing over whether I should share all the details of my life… I have just had some developments in my sitch that are embarrassing to me, and I was reluctant to post them. Really, the embarrassment stems not only from my own behavior, but also from plain ol’ damaged pride at S’s actions.
In a nutshell (because I think I’m ready to own up a little), here are some things that have been happening:
1. I found a receipt dated 1/16 with a woman’s phone number on it (in her h/writing), notated by S. with the bar/restaurant he met her in. It is a restaurant a few doors down from a place he always meets an old (M) friend for drinks. I remember the night well, because MF always goes to bed really early, and S. came home late that night. I said something like, “Wow, [MF] stayed up way past his bedtime tonight!” to which S. replied, “Apparently.” Later I saw the phone number. Because I can be crazy that way, I looked up the number, and it’s the number for the restaurant notated by S. on the receipt (which was not a receipt from the restaurant, it was obviously an available slip of paper). She’s the bartender. So it’s not her home number, but sufficient enough to make me scream, YUCK! ~~~*
So, this was certainly a shaky time for us, because we’d just had the NYE massacre, but he had just spent two weeks with my family in Georgia and we were about to go on a three-week trip together, as well as a session with a T. Can you tell me why he was out in a bar by himself (after MF went home) collecting women’s phone numbers?
I didn’t mention it when I found it (good coaching by H2H), but because S. went out with this same MF over this past w-e and went to the same bar, I was uneasy about it and it was brought to the forefront again. Then, yesterday, as I was helping S. get out the door to work, he asked me to move a stack of papers and get a book that was underneath for him. What fell out of the stack as I picked it up? The receipt with the phone number. I still didn’t say anything (thanks for the duct tape at the right moment, SD), but I did take it with me.
2. S. and I didn’t speak to each other for two whole days this week, because of a “fight” of sorts I don’t feel like going into here. Neither of us would give in. It was really stupid, and during the time we weren’t calling (two days, then I called to let him know I was going out, to break the ice), I know that he looked at several incongruous things on the Internet (these are in order from Tuesday morning):
a. personal ads from women seeking men
b. five different historic mansions that are now romantic getaway B&Bs
c. Tiffany engagement ring diamond cuts and pricing
OK, so before you start doing gopher dances, at the time he was looking at these things (Tu a.m.) three things were true:
a. his good friend had just broken up with his long-term GF, and one of the disputes was over money (he was saving for an engagement ring) – S. was probably just curious about what 10K gets you in an engagement ring, i.e., not necessarily shopping for me.
b. We had just had a long conversation last weekend about this friend’s break-up, and one of the issues with his friend had been finances, specifically taking trips together and who pays. S. and I talked a lot about us, and I mentioned that to my knowledge, S. had never thought about taking me on a trip and paying for it. He immediately said “Oh yes I have, I just wouldn’t have said anything to you about it.”
c. We had not spoken to each other (at all) since Sunday night. Sunday night’s conversation was a continuation of the fight, was clipped and cold, and ended abruptly.
3. I told him on Wednesday when we finally spoke that I had decided to have four close GFs over for brunch on Sunday and their families/fiances/BFs. This is a group of women I met at the same time when I first moved to NY, and the point was, we were getting together to catch up (we have brunch together about every two months (we all live in the same neighborhood, oddly enough). S. called me from work Thursday to ask if “we” could invite his boss (whom I’ve met and like very much) and her H and daughter (18 mo). He kept talking about “we,” as in “We can make fruit salad” and “We can make that spinach and mushroom tart” and “We should have them over, it’s a good time.” I was taken aback, because I thought it was clear that the “group” was already set (i.e., this was MY brunch with MY four GFs and their Hs and children and families), but I decided this was a huge positive and so I went with it. He was really happy, and so am I. The one weird thing? He has asked me twice if my GF’s BF is coming (remember, the GF he acted so inappropriately about?) He hasn’t asked about anyone else.
Now, I know I snooped and snooping’s bad and that’s what you get when you snoop, and whatever else you want to say. I don’t really need whacks for snooping, because I know I’ll keep doing it until one day I snoop and DON’T find some woman’s phone number or find that he’s been looking at personal ads on the Internet ~~*
I see the positives, I really do. Mostly I just want to post these developments because I am doing some hard thinking about whether S. is going to be right for me (I don’t really want to be with someone who at the first sign of trouble gets a phone number in a bar or looks at personal ads). I’m not ignoring all the dumb things I do or the way I act, either. But a lot of things (the gardening incident, for one) have made me wonder if I’m holding onto this because I’m afraid to let it go, or because it’s right and just needs work.
Thanks to Wonder’s thread, I’m awaiting the Susan Anderson book, and visions of my dream house…
Thanks to all for getting to the bottom of this most painfully long post…
J - I'm not opposed to all snooping - sometimes you just really need to know the truth about some things in order to figure out what to do. The problems with snooping come 1) when it gets you all worked up and makes it impossible to Act As If or 2) when you make ASSumptions about what you find that are incorrect.
Quote: Mostly I just want to post these developments because I am doing some hard thinking about whether S. is going to be right for me (I don’t really want to be with someone who at the first sign of trouble gets a phone number in a bar or looks at personal ads)
I think this is the crux of the matter. You're not married, you don't have kids, and SO's coming back has not exactly been of the "you are the love of my life, I don't know what I was thinking, I couldn't bear to lose you" type. I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask if you are willing to settle for a guy who has not shown the requisite growth through this whole thing?
As for the results of your snooping - what you do with it depends on where you are. If you are really sure you are willing to walk away if he's not more forthcoming - you could (calmly) ask him what all this means. Or you could go to the bar, look up the bartender, show her a pic of SO, and let her know you aren't mad at her but just really trying to find out the truth about his character, and ask her what transpired. (I mean, did she offer her number, did he ask for it so he could buy something from her or sell her something, or did they have sex in the parking lot and he promised to call? Lots of possibilities. Some innocent, some not so.)
If you're not ready for the possible consequences of all those, though - then you could keep DBing, and just watch those red flags. Or you could look back at what worked before and start doing it again (maybe YOU need to collect a few bartenders' numbers and leave them lying around? )
Ask yourself - if your best girlfriend was dating him, and you knew all of this about him - would you tell her he was a good risk for marriage? Or would you be trying to talk your friend out of the R? What if it was your daughter?
You may be jumping to conclusions but you may also be right. For months I thought my H was lying to me. I kept finding things but he dismissed them and I took him at his word. We were constantly fighting and I couldn't figure out why. Now I see that he was keeping me at a distance because he had so many secrets. His stories weren't adding up and he realized I was catching on.
My gut instinct told me something was extremely wrong but I wanted so badly for things to work that I ignored huge red flags. It took the OW showing up at my house for me to see.
I think you were away when all of my drama went down. My H and I are divorcing. He not only had a ONS, he also got involved with another woman 5 months after the ONS (3 months after we reconciled). Was intimate with her once and had been talking to her on the phone for months. He finally ditched her when she started pressuring him to see him (she lives out of state).
I wish I would have followed my gut instincts. I had to be hit over the head to see what was right in front of my face.
I know this is anti-DBing but I think you need to ask him what is going on.
I just wanted to say that I appreciate your transparency about your own sitch. Whatever doubts or difficulties you have in your own R, they don't detract in the slightest from your insights and wisdom about Rs. Please don't think that you have to have it all sussed out to be able to give feedback!
From a purely selfish point of view, I'd hate you to curtail your feedback.
I'm sorry about recent developments with SO. As Ellie mentioned, it's hard to know to what extent they are red flags. I think you need more information.
Good luck with all of this and remember that you've already graduated to DB vet status no matter what happens. You can't undo that.
Wendy
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
Thanks for the input and support, guys. Ellie, what you’re saying is exactly my line of thought. I am doing some serious soul-searching about what I need and want and if S. is capable of stepping up to the plate (or, at least, capable of stepping up to mine). I’ve gone through almost every possible scenario for why he’d have this woman’s number, and since he doesn’t sell anything or buy much of anything, I’m pretty sure it was a flirtation (but not sex in the parking lot – I did see him that night). If she offered or he asked makes no difference to me – the fact is he notated it and kept it, so it wasn’t unwanted. I have toyed with going and asking her the deal, but at this point it seems too stalkerish for my taste (not ruling it out, though! ).
MF, I had no idea. I just caught myself up on your thread and I’m so sorry for all you’re going through – what a lout! Double puke for him! ~~~~~~~** ((((((((((((((((((MF)))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks, Wendy, for the encouragement. I’m not going anywhere… my own sitch may be a shambles, but you can’t shut me up on everyone else’s!
I have now reminded myself that I can’t control what he does (even if I have ways to find out about it), thinks, or looks at on the Internet.
So, what CAN I do? I was considering another bout of darkness, or at least a mini-cloak, as a way to jump-start my stalled GAL activities and move forward and give a nudging reminder to S. that he DID, once (for about a couple of weeks), think all those things Ellie mentioned (SO's coming back has not exactly been of the "you are the love of my life, I don't know what I was thinking, I couldn't bear to lose you" type.) Of course, then the struggle is, am I just doing this to get a reaction? Well, if it helps me to focus more on ME and MY life and in the process happens to give him a kick in the shorts, then who cares?
Then I take a look at my schedule. I wanted to sign up for a class, but as usual, I’m gone for 6 days here, 10 days there and would miss too much class to make it w/w. OK, so get my butt to the gym. Back to yoga (stopped since right before we went away at Xmas). Get back to kung fu. Organize my stuff so that when I have to move in August I’ll be ready to pack well in advance. Go visit friends in Boston and Baltimore on weekends. Read more, a goal I have done really well meeting this new year. Go to the movies. Start studying Arabic, something I’ve wanted to do since I got back from Tunisia two years ago.
In the meantime, I can wait and watch, and I think I can ask for more information without putting everything on the line. I’ve rehearsed lines in my head like, “Do you want to tell me who Simone is, and why you have her telephone number?” in the most calm voice I can muster. Alternatively, I can say I feel we’re not connected lately, and I’d like things to improve. I can say I feel he’s looking outside the R, and ask him to let me know what kind of attention he needs and isn’t getting from me. I can gently say I saw the number and not ask about it, and use that bit of information to open a discussion about our R and how we can make it stronger.
At any rate, none of this is happening before Sunday’s brunch, and I’ve got to get going on the preparations… again, thanks for the support and encouragement. I’ve had a knot in my stomach for three days (and I thought it was the chips and salsa, H2H!).
This brunch I'm hosting, that S. invited his boss and her family to, is tomorrow. The reason I do these things is I LOVE to cook and I'm good at it, and so partly it's a showing-off thing for me. This morning, S. was talking about what WE could make (huh? where is all this WE coming from all of a sudden) and he wanted to make my banana bread recipe. I said "I'm going to make the banana bread," after which he totally goaded me into saying that the reason I was having this brunch was to have an opportunity to cook for my friends, upon which he said, with a sly look in his eye, "So if I were to ask if I could help, you would say [pause] 'Maybe.'?"
Hi Slowly! Thanks for stopping by. The brunch went very well. Following is TMI on the menu, copied and pasted from an e-mail to my mom, so the details are legion…I didn't cook much, but the spread was beautiful. I had:
a big fruit salad of mango, asian pears, blood oranges, and dried cherries, a plate of papaya chunks, a plate of chunked bananas with lemon juice, maple syrup drizzle, and cinnamon sprinkle (which were SO delicious), a bowl of plain yogurt and a bowl of granola, a plate of ruby red grapefruit that I had sliced and cut into bite-sized pieces, orange-cranberry scones that I baked (turned out really well), two different kinds of olives, four cheeses (bucheron, double gloucester with green onions, danish blue, and brie), cracked pepper water crackers, and artisanal bread, green and red grape bunches, a bowl of half-and-half dried figs and apricots, a prune coffee cake that S. made, a spinach-mushroom-goat cheese tart I made, and a big plate in the middle of steamed (cold) asparagus, tomato slices, and cucumbers.
And I made mimosas with good champagne and had really yummy fresh-ground coffee.
I have such lovely mixed plates and serving utensils (mixed Japanese pottery from SF and teak serving spoons I brought back from Thailand). All the colors on the table were so beautiful... and I completely forgot to take a picture. Also, I’d been up until 2 a.m. finishing the upholstery on an armchair in my LR (it started as a slipcover and turned into full-blown upholstery), and it looks fantastic! So my house looked great, topped off by a colorful woven throw I brought back from Chile with which I made two chairs into a bench.
Things have been going pretty well. These last two days S. has been wiped out (I mean flat in bed) with a terrible flu. He’s had fever and chills and body pain, and so I stayed at his place day and night and took care of him. When he was sleeping, which was about 20 hours a day, I got a lot of work done. I’ve never seen him sick, and so it was pretty bad. He’s never missed a day of work, as far as I know, and for this he missed two. He was really appreciative of my being there all the time and taking care of him.
I couldn’t help but wonder if it dawned on him that he had been completely absent for me during my neck crisis, but I didn’t even need duct tape (saffron, apricot, or otherwise) to keep my mouth shut. It’s amazing to me if he doesn’t make the connection, since he said to me, after I’d come in while he was sleeping and he didn’t hear me, but hours later croaked “Hello?” from inside the BR – “I didn’t hear you come in or hear you in the LR but I felt your presence there, and it was really comforting to know you were there, even while I was sleeping.” Of course, when I was bedridden and asked him to stay home with me, he said, “There’s nothing I can do for you. You just need to lie here and try to relax and get some sleep.” After which he left me lying there, racked with pain and in a panic over it.
Last night I took two hours off to go to a movie down the street, which was amazing. It opens in a few weeks in major cities, and I highly recommend it to the un-faint-hearted among you: “Oldboy,” directed by Park Chan-Wook (same director as “Joint Security Area”). Wow. Disturbing, but an amazing film, with a story that is over the top, and beautiful camera work.
Otherwise, since the brunch S. and I had an interesting conversation about what we are expecting to see as far as readiness to settle down, and we both had some doozies – he is expecting these “signs” from me that just ain’t happenin’, and as it turns out, the signs I am expecting from him are off the mark for his behavior, as well. So it was interesting to see that we were both en attendant Godot, and now we have a better idea of what those signs realistically are.
A big positive is that he’s really made moves to get his house repairs going since that conversation (in which I told him that he is always talking about fixing his house so that he can move out of it and rent it or sell it, and I’ve never seen him do ANYthing toward that end, meaning he must not be ready to be with another person). His house is a four-family, of which he rents the upper three floors and lives in the ground-floor apartment. Since our conversation on Sunday night, he has called four contractors, had them come over to look at the place, and sent eviction notices to his tenants, which is necessary to do the repairs and renovations. So, wow. With S., it’s excruciating glacial movement for years, then suddenly a renegade piece breaks off and causes an avalanche. Ah, Chile… fertile ground for metaphors!
And on the high PMA front – I just was solicited by a prestigious new client, whom I turned down because I was way overqualified for the work and the pay was low (I never would have turned down work in the past); I was offered and accepted a great new project (with great pay) from an existing client a few hours later; I’ve been to four movies in the last week and a half; I just finished a fantastic book and started a new one; and I found a new brand of jeans that fits me perfectly – a minor miracle!
Jennifer - I feel breathless just contemplating the week you have had. Firstly, huge congratulations on brunch - your words paint vivid images of bold colours and succulent bites. Bliss
Quote: It’s amazing to me if he doesn’t make the connection, since he said to me, after I’d come in while he was sleeping and he didn’t hear me, but hours later croaked “Hello?” from inside the BR – “I didn’t hear you come in or hear you in the LR but I felt your presence there, and it was really comforting to know you were there, even while I was sleeping.”
Aha - a new experience for him - being bedridden, and a 180 for you, being there - ummm - unconditionally? Awesome that he could verbalise his appreciation and express his need for comfort. This is huge in my book, the one with a husband who is still finding it difficult to verbalise
Quote: Since our conversation on Sunday night, he has called four contractors, had them come over to look at the place, and sent eviction notices to his tenants, which is necessary to do the repairs and renovations. So, wow.
Yeah, wow seems to say it all. This man is serious, babe. Whatever you have been doing, its working
~~~*
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