Hi, We've been married for fifteen years and looking back to figure out when it started, I find that when we were dating I should have known. I know this will get a sad little giggle, but, I really do feel that his LD is just twords me. In the seventeen years we have been together, I think I have turned down sex maybe twice. I believe he has had EAs. I talked w/H this evening and he admits to the lack of interest going back for seven years. That is about the time he had a disabling injury. But, I can recall problems and conversations as far back as 14 years. When we were first married, he told me about one day at the base (military) and all the young guys talking about the best sex they ever had. When they asked him he simply replied with "I married it", I believe he ment it. When we do ML it is earth shattering. We always said that the bedroom was the one place we didn't have problems. The only problem is acually getting him to the bedroom. At least 95% of the time he sleeps on the couch, even when our marriage is doing well. I think we miss alot of opportunities to ML or feel close because of proximity. You can't rollover in the middle of the night or early in the morning and just let things happen naturally. There is no chance for him to get into the mood, unless he's already interested. If he wakes up in the middle of the night it's a shorter walk to the computer and a lot less effort to take care of himself than to show interest in me. I have alot of internal struggles with self esteem, I often feel like I'm fighting with his opinion of me, and who I want to be. I've been to counseling for myself, about 4 years ago I went through a very bad depression with thoughts of suicide. We were in marriage counseling at the time which was absolutely horrible. each week there would be something new I would have to change or work on (which was fine, I am very willing to work on me) After about 5 sessions together I was given the homework of yell at the kids less and to show H how I do the finances. After these few sessions where I had to work on something new and again H had no homework. I asked what his homework should be. When I suggested the he stop writting love letters to women on the internet, the counselor said "Well he must have needs that aren't being met at home." So again I faithfully did my homework and no expectations were put upon him. And get this, he's the one that ended going to counseling.
There has been a constant struggle throughout our marriage with he loves me, he loves me not. I try to use "I" statements and let him know how I feel about issues in our marriage. To the extent that one argument began with me saying "I feel- and being cut off with a burst from him of "You feel, you feel, everybody knows how you feel" I then told him that's great, but nobody knows how you feel and I've obviously been really bad at guessing. Then as usual a quick exit by H.
I feel completely undesirable. Once about 10 yrs ago I was out dancing with my friends (an uncommon occurence) and when a mutual friend of my H and I kissed me I completely freaked out. I quickly left the club and cried hysterically. I couldn't believe that someone could have any interest in me.
I think that his lack of affection and running hot then cold, stems from a fear of intimacy. I use to love rollercoasters but now they just give me a headache. There have been so many ups and downs in our marriage, either begging or ending with sexual problems, that I also wonder if it's all been worth it. I have experienced every emotion because of our sex life.
I have recently considered an affair, I actually went on a date with this OM. We met for a drink after work. No, I do not work with him. I just can't do it. He walked me to my car and asked me if I was sure this is what I want to do? I said that I'm not sure of anything anymore. He said he wasn't going to pressure me and that he wanted all of me and would wait til I knew for sure. I haven't talked to him since that night. I just got in my car and drove home.
Reading over what I've written, I must sound like an unstable person. I wasn't always so scared and pathetic. My H's brother and I are very close. He says he really misses that 19yr old girl that could stop the world when she wanted to. I have to agree that I miss her to.
Honey, you don't sound unstable at all. You sound like a perfectly normal person having a perfectly normal reaction to a crazymaking situation.
I hope the counselor you have now is more supportive of YOU and does not take sides the way the other one did. If you were the only one who ever had homework, that sounde very lopsided.
It's time for you to get your feet on the ground, regardless of how your H reacts to you. I mean not just in the bedroom but in your whole life. Your situation has evolved into one where you are focused on him and his reactions to you (or lack of reaction) and this has eroded your self esteem. This happens to lots of people-- it's really one of the potential pitfalls of marriage (or a job or parenthood), where your sense of yourself comes from something OUTSIDE of you.
I do have some ideas (mostly books, really, which is where I find my salvation... ), but I'd like to hear more from you. I'm starting a thread for you below. That is where people mostly interact and tell their stories. The board is slow on the weekends.
I noticed that when we were first married, my husband was always GRABBING me, and it drove me crazy! I would get really mad, because it wasn't like a nice romantic caress or anything and it offended me. After he finally got it that this did not turn me on, it seemed that things were about equal for several years, but aside from the grabbing, he has always seemed to be able to "take it or leave it" . If he could have it, great- if not, no big deal.
It has progressed now to where it is usually me making the suggestion earlier in the day, but often is him, but when it comes to making it happen later that night when kids are in bed, he is always too tired, or has to get up early, whatever.
Its almost like he is "humoring" me to show interest, but he really couldn't care less if it happens or not.
Feelings: the biggest are disconnect, resentment, and feeling ugly and unwanted. (rejected)
I am easily overly impressed with other men, and seeking approval/interest from them. I don't know if this is related or not, but I go through periods every couple years where I develop a strong crush on another man. Though I have never cheated, it surely has crossed my mind, because I so want to be WANTED.
It makes me feel critical and disappointed in my h also. Kindof like, "if he was really a man, he would..." I feel a little ashamed of him, and definetly sad when I hear my friends talk about how their husbands want it all the time.
Believe me, virginwife I am with you. I am just 25 years old and sexless but I do not imagine a long life (33 years) with non existant or almost non existant sex from my husband. I do start to get "crazy". I took everything easy, had a very pleasant character, I am not demanding (my ideal romantic date can be pizza and a dvd movie at home plus sex of course),but now dear husband with endless rejections has made me short tempered. I get irritated with things I couldn't care less about few years ago...Well, to say I'm wounded to the core is a huge understatement. Thing is, I do feel identified with your case, because he is a good, wonderful man, and we can have good moments as friends...good provider, have traveled a lot, like best friends but not more... But...I do not need more male friends or a brother (I have a brother) I need a husband and lover. He is not gay, he is not a womanizer he is just not into having sex.... maybe a couple of times per year... did I forget to tell you that I have just married one year and two months ago?? And that I am slim, have a good figure and atractive?
I certainly will wait some years to see what happens (I married dear husband because I love him of course) but not forever. Some people do change but some do not (I guess most belong to the second group to my dismay).
By the way I am not a nympho. Just the idea of one nookie per year is not my idea of marriage...
And thus I certainly do not agree with the idea of an affair, well, i do not condone the act but i certainly understand it in this sad circumstances. Nobody's saint and with years of being without sex an affair is like an accident waiting to happen for sexless, desperate wives... lots of men look at me in a distinctive way and I only wonder how it would be... to have a normal relationship
I am not exactly new to this place, but I haven't been around much lately either. I just finished reading this thread and took notes on the way. Most of these are viewpoints or observations I haven't seen already mentioned. This in no way means any of my comments describe anyone elses S, but I have always been willing to toss in a few ideas if only to get the imagination of others working on a new track.
I feel that many of you are describing me exactly and then suddenly start talking about another person entirely. I am certain my W views me as LD (at least sometimes) and her comments to me are almost identical to some of the complaints listed by several here. However, I do not feel the difference to be as great as many describe here.
Desire (for me) is only minimally based on body shape. I have taken great care to convice her that a smile works a lot better than makeup/perfume/clothes/etc. I even read that Oprah suggested something similar (see recent magazine). W now wears makeup rarely, almost exclusively to the more formal events. This is great for me. makeup tends to rub off on me and I find it irritating, perfume (or variants) is exciting for about 5 minutes, then starts to drive me away in an effort to get some air I can breathe. I enjoy her own scent more than any perfume, and I know that it is her. All other things equal, a good fitness level would make some activities/variations a bit easier, but a modest amount of imagination or planning can more than make up the difference. My most exciting episodes were when she would plan and prepare events, she expressed her desire, constantly demonstrating that she wanted sex, I could barely restrain myself, the final event would always be fast, intense and wonderful.
The (obvious) follow up question becomes: Why do I not make similar plans for events to share. Every time I have examined my feelings/response, I always end up at the same place. I fear rejection. It used to be that sex was her cure for things like headaches, etc. We always laughed at the shows where a headache was the excuse. Then came the time where sex no longer worked like aspirin. (The reasons involved 'speed bumps' in both lanes) She started to avoid sex giving quite a variety of reasons. I have no reason to doubt that they were real. My available foreplay arsenal was no longer sufficient. My rare attempts almost always start as tenous suggestions (rejection insurance), and usually resulted in not interested responses (busy/kids/tired/worried/mood/...), so my plans would almost always get shot down before they even got past the suggestion of possibility. Then she wonders why I don't initiate.
There is no doubt that she is the dominant half of our partnership. So many times I have come to the conclusion that she secretly wants to be dominated, but she has no concept of how to play the submissive. Since I am the less dominant, I am particularly unsuited to be a dominant to an unwilling submissive. The result once again is that initiation on my part is rare.
All these words, so many detailed descriptions, however I am the visual type. To understand a new concept, I must visualize something, emotions have no image to visualize, so descriptions of emotions and emotional needs evaporate before an image can form to make a picture that might stick. When others are explaining a new concept, I cannot look at them because that distracts me and prevents me from visualizing what they are trying to say. Understanding the problem, beyond that she is upset, just does not happen. The obvious followup question becomes, how can you discuss feelings with a visual person?
I have no objections to her pleasing herself. She has hinted a few times and my response has always been 'can I watch?' but it almost never happens. I think it would make an interesting variant to add a little spice to the normal routine.
How would you feel about starting a regular thread. I found your comments interesting and some remind me a bit of my H. You might really provide some enlightenment for some of the confused womankind on this forum.
I actually do have my own thread, but it has been over a year since anything has happened there. I am currently focusing on understanding what my feelings/desires/needs really are and then the hard part which is how to communicate them to W.
I would be happy to answer any questions directed at me, but for spontaneously providing details about myself would take more patience than I feel comfortable asking of anyone here. The current year of silence would stretch even my patience. However, if anyone wants to direct questions at me outside of where I post, I will watch my old thread and try to answer.
In the meantime, I will read random threads for ideas and insert thoughts/comments that I feel are relevant and not too redundant.
mrwhy, you indicated one of the things you fear is rejection. wouldn't it be the HD individual that's being turned down all the time that is grappling with the rejection issue?
i know my wife almost always turns me down. i'm the initiator, i'm dealing with a boatload of rejection.
i'm sorry - i'm new to the site and popping into a thread near the most recent posts, but guy to guy, i just don't get that aspect of your most recent post.
perhaps you could elaborate. it may be helpful - perhaps there's an angle to my wife's distancing i haven't considered.
I do consider myself the HD partner, but the rejection is not entirely sexual.
W has resolved to not refuse sex just because she doesn't feel like it, which is good in that the sexual tension no longer gets to the stage where it is hard to control. However, not refusing does not include active participation. I occasionally wonder if a warm blowup doll would be any better. Hence, rejection still there, just no longer complete rejection.
