He is in a similar situation to you...he's also an LDH. I'm an HDW myself. This thread concentrates on how the HDW feels, what affect a SSM can have on her and how the behaviors can change the marriage.
If you want to save your marriage you aren't too far gone. You've gone nearly 2 months....while that's a horrible thing to have to endure, there are people on this board who have had to endure longer....and have saved their marriage and turned it for the better as well.
Michele, In my situation my husband was great in the beginning, then after we were together about 6 months things started changing. I have been married for 8 months and more and more I feel like I am living in a private hell. It was good for me to see other women have the same problems, but its still frustrating that my husbands sex/imtimacy drive has taken a downward spiral. We were living in my parents house when it started and so did the arguing. I find a lot of fault with him and I do see him as weak, not as a man in a traditional sense. That was hard to say, but I do not see him as my lover only my room mate. We argue everyday and for me the intimacy issue is a big deal, my husband says I just cant live without sex like I am going to die. But inside I feel like I am already dead. I dread waking up knowing that nothing has changed. Its been a few weeks since we have made love and I think its pathetic that I cant remember the last time we did. I want so much to have the intimacy that I have been thinking about having an affair. I know its not right, but I feel as though I am left with no choice. I asked him today to check out your website in hopes of fixing our problem so maybe the hurt and shame will go away. I have been talking to my husband over a year about this and no change, over and over again day after day, I am giving this marriage one last try and then if it does not work out then I am going to call it quits. I cant live with feeling like this anymore, this is my second marriage, I am not getting any younger and do not want to waste any more time. Hopefully my husband loves me and wants our marriage to work that he will take things seriously and make and honest effort along with me. Rose
When we first started dating, my husband and I were in a long-distance relationship. He was also my first relationship, so there was a lot of excitement on both our parts about him sort of "teaching" me about physical intimacy, inducting me into the world of "corruption," if you will. Both of us had decided, for religious reasons mostly, to not have sex before marriage, but when we were together there was a lot of heavy making out and experimentation, and a lot of skirting the line. In those days, like many others within the first six months of our relationship, whenever we actually managed to be together we just couldn't keep our hands off of each other, be it in petting or just cuddling.
When he moved down here, and we were together on a more regular basis, we had that same sort of interaction for a few months, but then, abruptly, the passion just... stopped. He still wanted cuddles and hugs and kisses and lots of relaxed snuggling time, but it never went beyond that. He said that it was because of the sex-before-marriage thing, and that we didn't want to push too far like we had been. I went along with it, but things didn't improve after our wedding. He said that he was just out of the habit, so we tried waiting and picking *up* the habit, but nothing changed. Finally, I began to accept that this was an on-going problem, and discussions went on from there.
Because of a combination of my upbringing and lack of relationships beforehand, I had never really developed a physical sense of myself as a woman, or really any grasp of my own femininity. Now that I had a target to base such things on, I wound up attaching several aspects of my self-image on how he responded to me. (A battle I still wage within myself, though I've come a long way since I realized what I was doing.) So suddenly finding that a man who, like me, had associated sex and passion with marriage was unable to really get into the idea of sex and passion with *me* in marriage was a heavy blow to that self-image. I felt unattractive, unwanted, unwantABLE, unfemiine, and overall a failure as a wife. The various things he came up with that he thought would "help" didn't help much, either... he picked up on my weight gain, my lack of cooking skill, my lack of traditionally female "skills" as perhaps part of why he wasn't physically attracted to me in that way any more. And I worked obsessively on fixing those things. I dropped 20 pounds, learned to cook some pretty nice meals, refined my wardrobe to make it more form-fitting and pleasing to the eye, started wearing earrings again, bought lingerie, threw myself at him, backed off and let him do all of the initiating (practically none), and went through various contortions to bend myself into what he thought he would be attracted to again. And nothing changed. So I felt, for some time, that I simply wasn't capable of being feminine and attractive enough to be sexy. I mean, if I was throwing so much of my heart and soul into it, and still couldn't become what he wanted... I just must not be good enough. I regained 10 pounds, and the efforts I'd actually been taking pleasure in to develop some of those skills and abilities became something that left me feeling ashamed and demeaned, rather than pleased. A large part of the conflict was also that I was raised in a strongly feminist environment, so the thought of, for example, trying to lose weight so a man would find me attractive was anathema to me. (Mind, I don't find this a failing of feminism - I simply feel that I was in an unhealthy mindframe toward my self-image at the time. Since then, that influence has also been a large part of how I've pulled myself out of that self-defeating cycle, and really helped me establish my own sense of feminine and sexual identity despite my husband's inability to be part of it.) So I was conflicted, inside and out, and confused, with no real idea of what all of that *should* be based on, or where to find a basis for my sexual self outside of my husband when I'd spent so long associating a real sex life *with* a husband.
I've gone through hope, action, patience, waiting, despair, hope, despair, hope and patience, so many different emotions toward the possibility of a solution. If he would just accept that it's who he is and it's not something he's willing/going to change, then there are certain steps I could take to protect myself from that cycle, and at least there would be a resolution. But he doesn't want to, he insists he wants to change things, but refuses to take any actions that would actually *help* him change them because he still associates it with shame.
At this point in time, my greatest feeling toward the whole situation is anger and frustration. I feel as though I've been running circles around myself for two years now, trying to change myself to fix the problem, doing things I didn't really want to do to make him happy, and he hasn't reciprocated. I do recognize a lot of the progress he's made, in his ability to talk about it without moving instantly into defensive mode, which I understand completely, and his ability to recognize that it's causing a problem within our marriage. And I respect that progress, and am extremely grateful for what he has accomplished. But I've been "just doing" the things he's wanted out of me for two years now, and his response to the first mention of that approach on his part was to dismiss everything the one resource that really brought me relief in this whole situation as useless to him without even bothering to read the rest of it. My doctor recently told me that the two anti-depressants that have little-to-no sexual side effects are effexor and wellbutrin, the two that they have me on. I'm considering going in and asking them to put me on something that *does* have sexual side effects, simply so that I don't have to deal with the sex drive that seems to be causing me so many problems.
I also feel a lot of guilt. I love my husband - he's a wonderful man, emotionally open, loving and affectionate, addicted to cuddling and snuggling, a great cook, helps around the house, brilliant and devoted. I feel horrible that with everything we have going for us, and everything that I have so wonderful, that I shouldn't let a little thing like sex get in the way of enjoying our time together.
But I also feel like I shouldn't have to smother or seek out ways to smother my sex drive. It's a part of who I am, and it's a part of myself that I've spent so much time limiting and denying that I want to explore that aspect of life and my personality. I resent the fact that my husband can't seem to work with me on our sex life, and more that barring that, he can't seem to handle the idea of me taking care of my *own* sex life. Anything with him has to wait on his moods, and anything without him has to be kept secret from him, a shameful thing that he wants no part or knowledge of. While I understand why he might view it as a failing on his part, I've tried desperately to break that image in his mind, and reinforce the idea that we just have different sex drives. But while the conscious part of my mind understands so much of *his* conflict and motivation or lack thereof, more of me feels like it's just... selfish of him to expect me to put all of my issues aside while I let him work through his... especially when he doesn't feel comfortable initiating conversation with me on it or keeping me updated on what he's actually *doing* or working through. And my resentment grows, each day that I have to shove my stress and issues aside because he's not comfortable being exposed to them. He's single-handedly managed to do what my mother took such great care to not do, and even the Southern Baptist Church didn't do to me... he's made any sort of sex life I could have, with him or on my own, something to be ashamed of rather than something to celebrate and take joy in.
So I feel guilty, resentful, resentful of that guilt, frustrated, ashamed, furious that I feel even slightly ashamed, and still on the unattractive/unfeminine side. I also feel sad that I'm placed in the situation *of* developing my own sense of my sexuality, without his involvement, and disappointed that something I once took such joy in is now such a trigger for depression. I feel understanding, because I *do* understand why and in how many ways it's causing conflict within him, but at the same time, helpless and hopeless because he's shown me so little improvement, or effort to improve (though consciously I'm sure, almost positive, almost... that he is) and there's nothing left I can do at this point to motivate him to seek help with it except play a card I'm not ready to play yet. And angry at myself that I'm not ready to play that card, to lay it all on the line for a potential fix to something that could cause me so much misery. Angry that I'm willing to accept the days and weeks and months of depression and angst for the days and weeks of contentment and happiness when I manage to shove it all to the side for a while. Though I've managed to construct an image of my physical self and an idea of my personal sexuality, I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy and unattractiveness... with the idea that even though he says he thinks i'm hot and cute and sexy and all of that, he doesn't really mean the sexy and hot ones because he doesn't *feel* them. I'm struggling through to the idea that he does feel them, just not in the same way I do. That sexy doesn't necessarily mean "something to have sex with" but "something that looks like it might be good to have sex with." That hot doesn't have to mean "something that makes me hot" but can mean "something that would make me hot if I were in a place to get hot." And I don't want to struggle through to them, because somewhere deep inside I still don't *want* to give up on the idea of having a robust sex life with my husband.
So emotions-wise, I run the gamut, and have for a couple of years now. I hope that's sort of what you were looking for, and it was nice to get to vent again. (-:
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
Hi all, I am reading and reading your incredible responses. I just want to add my email address for anyone wishing to respond but not on the board. Feel free to email me directly at Michele@divorcebusting.com. In the subject line, write, "HDW" Thanks!! More to follow! Michele
Honeypot, The arousal-sex issue certainly holds true for many men. There are millions of men who don't have random lusty thoughts until they are sufficiently stimulated physically. I know you wish this weren't so for your husband, but it may very well be the case. I totally understand that you want to feel his lust for you and I hope for both of your sakes, it happens that way occasionally. HAving said that, do yourself a favor. When you "have to work hard" stimulating him, remember, it's not about you, it's about his pattern of desire. He simply needs that physical stimulation. Although some men are willing to use testosterone supplements with great success, others are not. If your husband is not, you should become his "testosterone" and "give him a lift." So, the short answer is YES, men experience the need for arousal before desire too!
I don't know why I need to know this, but I do. I need to know that this happens to other men and then I can proceed with my plan of action.
Without that knowledge I am left to wonder why, out of the millions of men, I ended up with the guy who has a severe hangup about desire. And, yes, I realize that is my problem not his. But your info, as a therapist who has seen gobs of couples, helps tremendously.
From now on, I will look at it as him having a sort of ADD when it comes to his own desire. He cannot focus on it, is always distracted and needs intense concentration to complete the task at hand. I will help him with this concentration to the degree that I can--which would naturally include physical stimulation. Btw, he has high testosterone so no supplements for him!
Oh and do you think you could include a chapter on that angle in your new book? That most of the men who are LD have normal to high levels of testosterone. I think many women, myself included, hope against hope that it is something physical but the anecdotal evidence from this bb and my (limited) experience IRL seems to be against the low T aspect. Do you find this to be true in your practice, as well?
There is no question that low desire in men is often not a testosterone-related issue. There are many, many reasons a man may not feel turned on. However, it stands to reason that a physical check up is an efficient way to eliminate low testosterone as a potential cause of the problem. You're right though, low testosterone isn't the culprit many wish it were.
Obviously there are lots of people that have their desire wired backwards. But us HD's get tired of providing ALL of the desire. So what do you do then?
"There is no question that low desire in men is often not a testosterone-related issue. There are many, many reasons a man may not feel turned on. However, it stands to reason that a physical check up is an efficient way to eliminate low testosterone as a potential cause of the problem. You're right though, low testosterone isn't the culprit many wish it were."
I guess that I am sort of an LD husband. I thought it might have been my testosterne level, so I went and had it checked. Everything there was normal.
I think that right now, I'm "conveniently LD". My wife is on a lot of anti-depressants, and doesn't feel like making love very often. So, when she does, I find it hard to switch gears, and find the desire again. I've become LD as a means of self presevation, and just try not to think about it anymore. I've gotten out of the "habit" of having much desire.
I have been reading the book SSM but I haven't asked my husband to read it. We have not had sex in over a year and it has made very depressed and I question myself about who I am and how I look all the time. I am a healthy 37 year old female who is very active. He is 42 with some health problems but he assures me that is not the cause of our problem and will not go see a doctor. He doesn't like talking about sex with me and seems content to live without it. He never initiates any type of intimacy with me. We have only been married about three years and I noticed his lack of interest on the honeymoon. We never had sex in the first month of our marriage and when we finally did have sex I had to make the first move. We celebrate our anniversary every year but it never leads to the bedroom.
I was very clear while we were dating about how important sex was to me and he seemed okay with it at the time but he has since told me that he has never had much of a desire for sex. To make matters worse I tried having an affair but the OM couldn't maintain an erection which just made me feel even more unattractive and undesireable.
We started seeing a marriage counselor but he only goes if he feels like it or can make the time. I try staying busy but it gets so hard. I no longer approach him with the subject because I don't want to upset him or make hime feel bad so now I don't know where to turn. I want to stay together but not like this.
