Michele, I have a question for you..I'm not sure how often you check these forums.
Does the arousal-then-desire pattern show up very frequently in men, or is it primarily something you see with women?
I need to find a way around this--in my own mind, I mean--and was curious to know how prevalent this is.
My desire and enjoyment of the sexual experience is very wrapped up in his arousal and desire, as it is with all people. It is important to me that my husband enjoy my physical self..be turned on by that..and I have a hard time getting into the whole experience when he is not desirous of me, only willing. I think this aspect is a little different with the HD men. My arousal very much hinges on how attractive my mate finds me. I know the men want this element, too, but I would think it is more pronounced in the ladies, simply because that is part of the female experience--there is an emphasis on physical beauty that is not present in the HD male equation.
I need to know that my mate finds me attractive enough to want to pursue sex with me, and yet if his desire follows his sexual arousal, this is hard to do. There are times when I need to physically touch him to the point of erection and then WHAM he is attentive to me and focused on what about me turns him on. This system would work okay except that I don't necessarily have the proper amount of "heat" to sustain the experience until this happens. If I notice that I am not turning him on, I am much less apt to force the situation. I give up simply because it turns me OFF to have to pursue a man that hard.
So in a way I feel as if I am punishing him (and myself) because of the way his body works.
Or does it?
That's what I'm hoping to find out..if the arousal-desire pattern is as common in the men as women. If it is, I can work around that.
What I can't work around is a situation whereby he keeps his desire hidden away until I drag it out of him by being over the top with my own desire.
I am married to a passive-aggressive guy who procrastinates, makes promises about doing things that he ignores/breaks, etc. He has very LD (he says) but not overly long ago I discovered he had a huge porn collection that he was adding to and jerking off over while I was up all night for months and months with our baby. ;P Ah, yeah, not LD for THAT, eh. And he's an ogler, too, was very overt. It used to be downright insulting, he is more discreet since I pointed it out to him but he sure hasn't stopped, he has made it a big game to try and get me to notice when he's "sneaking peeks". He drools over other women and makes it obvious to me that he finds certain ones attractive. He gives sex only grudgingly when I get cranky about it, and manages to make me feel like it's a duty on his part. Sheesh, he used to talk about stuff he wanted my 'permission' [!?] to buy after having sex, as if it were some sort of trade-off, sex for bike parts. These days he likes to shop for real estate, that pretty much serves the equivalent. He won't admit that he finds my body unattractive, yet I sense that he does (no, I am not fat or anything, I'm 125 lbs, 5'7") but I have had 3 kids and don't look like a porn queen. He acts unturned on and doesn't want to give my body much attention (when he does, again, it's pretty grudging, you get the horrible impression he is doing you a huge favor and that makes it feel awful, hard for ME to get turned on then). He rarely does anything nice/lingering/no oral, etc. He doesn't "look turned on" when we make love and he never compliments me or acts like he finds me attractive. He has mentioned before that he mostly likes my "personality" (people tell me I look like Natalie Wood and I could get another guy in the snap of 2 fingers). This was when I found some old love letters of his to someone by mistake and they were absolutely torrid, nothing like he had ever written to or communicated to ME. He has always claimed that he wasn't good at expressing love, yet these letters proved that he was not at all. I was just not good-looking enough for him. I can only assume he wants me for another reason, and that is to be his "lifestyle vehicle". He dreams of a low-conflict/low-demand situation where he will only have to work minimally to enjoy a relaxed independent country lifestyle and my freelance profession would allow him to do that (he has been only irregularly employed and has a persnickety disposition about team playing). The problem is, we have a baby and I do need him to watch the baby sometimes so I can work (I do the same for him, he is working at the moment - a contract *I* found for him ;P)... I don't like him that much anymore, feel ugly and used and don't even WANT sex anymore, tired of feeling like it's a big favor he's doing me. I want to be genuinely WANTED and there are guys out there who would fit the bill, believe me. I'd love to get out of this marriage, but he keeps talking me out of it and will act "OK" for awhile, putting on a veneer of interest/attraction that is patently faked, doing more chores, etc., then lapses back into treating me like his armchair-for-life. I just can't seem to force myself to like him anymore. Let alone love. I'm so happy when he leaves the house to go do something, I feel 50 pounds lighter in spirit. This lady's post above really brought it home to me: we want to be thought attractive, or a lot of feeling falls by the wayside. I guess the reason I am reading DivorceBusters is because Divorce is such a hassle I'd like to avoid it. But I'd like to be happy, too, to have a real "love life".
Quote: This post has a "sticky" associated with it, so it is always at the top. Doesn't need bumping.
Yes but a bump shows up as a new post and therefore makes people take a look instead of thinking..."oh that's the thread that's just always at the top".
Or JJ could simply be bumping to remind Michelle that she said she'd come back and hasn't yet.
Well after a whirl-wind dating and things like going to the Art Museum and not making it home before things got hot and heavy, we married after knowing one another 9 months. I quickly became tearful. The jokes you hear about wedding cake spoiling a bride's sex drive can be said for the groom too. We got in at 4am the eve of our wedding, and promptly fell asleep.
A few weeks later, he went to a sports club where he was a contestant, and had been a member long before we met. This was a great opportunity for his guy's night and my tub soak. At first he'd come home timely and very interested in the bath oils and other nice things and all was fine. Then he would come home later with no interest in late night activities. He reminds me often of my "locking him out" once, but not the bedroom as he states for there was no lock on the door. I felt that since this was the crowd he ran with before our marriage, obviously some delight had caught his interest and I rebelled. I was wrong, but those were my honest feelings. I had obviously been replaced, for we all KNOW that a guy needs sex more than once a month or so.
I eventually went with him to the club and took up the sport and it was obvious that there was no "squeeze" there.
What was wrong with me? His first wife gained weight and ran home to momma. I was careful not to. I couldn't initiate anything and my ego died. I was good at sexual adventures, or so I thought. I went thru hoops to please him and still no contact. It was shattering.
As it turns out, he was more than LD he was ED. But not concerned enough to have it fixed or to seek help.
Frankly I know think there is a kind of guy who loves being a kid, taken care of by their mothers and uses their wives as an extension of that caring. I do think that they suffer from wedding cake poisoning and get complacent too easily. During the "In-Love and Blinded" time, we girls don't see that, and have not been raised by our parents to consider it. Have you ever heard of the parental talk, "Beware of the sexually asleep?" NO. It has always been "Beware of the sexual wolf, the horny guy that thinks only with the head below his waist." That, is Bunk!
I have been married 25 years, and have a lovely daughter she diverted some of my ache. My hobies took some too. She is now out on her own, and I have been in counselling for 2 years for depession and brought on by his controll without reward. I have told myself that I cannot get a divorse while working on her wedding. Now I wonder if I have been honest with myself on that and wonder what I will do after the wedding is over.
Young women, alive women be ware! I feel as if he is plugged into my hip with an extension cord, sapping all my energy and giving nothing in return. As some science-fiction/fantasies state "Drinking of my essence". I have aged easily 10 years in the last 3 with this delema. It is not in the least bit healthy. Yet from a judicial settlement point of view the courts would not be kind to me, adding more stress to the desission.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
In the meantime, I have begged for attentions. He would not even wash my back or any touch at all, for he was sure that with a dysfunctional organ, I could not be satisfied. I was appalled at the realization that he was not aware I could climax with foreplay. He considered foreplay a method of facilitating his release. Love making to him had no other meaning than ejaculation.
I am aware of others, who have some difficulty with their bodies not cooperating, yet they have the mindset to be connected in the joys of togetherness, foreplay, affection of love making and it's giving.
I convinced him to try other things and it was an assault of grossness and deliberateness akin to porn-fornication. He has no clue about the melding of soles of making love and intertwining. As a result, I no longer seek his attentions. The longing has broken me. The painful truth is a cancer in my sole. The only way I can cope is to divert my energies, and be a zombie at other times. We may have all had a fairytale view of what married life should be. Survival is what it has turned out to be for me.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Michelle, If you are still reading this topic here is my story.
After the birth of our first child (who is now 24) H was just not interested for quite a while. We fought often and this was a very hard time. My body did not bounce back like he thought it would/should have. After birth of second son, this did not happen, if fact the opposite, but with having 2 children and going back to work after 6 weeks I wasnt interested much and he became angry and sullen.
Sex was never the same after that. We just didnt have the tools to work it out. He withheld it from me often. Said we need to be parents and didnt have time or energy for that. Intimate time were few and far between. I became stressed and angry all the time. I told myself he just didnt love me. Let myself go, was too busy working. It was all I had besides my sons.
I became overweight and unhappy. Started taking AD"s on the advice of my Dr.
We literally went a year at a time with no sex. When he felt I was at the end of my rope, he would grudingly agree.
H walked out four years ago and after a year more of lies and secrets I found out he had been involved in a total of three affairs. One with my best friend, and two with his co-workers. Said it was all about the sex, except the last one which had developed into a full blown relationship and commitment. Finally I had the truth and could move on. Then Wham, he came out of his MLC (largely due to the fact that although OW told him our kids and his family would come to accept his decision, they did not. He just was not the same man and they all made it clear not only would she never be a part of their lives, either would he)
H has now been home 3 years this month. Finally understanding why he did what he did and for the most part things are better than they ever have been. Except the sex.
He just is not interested. He has no desire for me. I work out at the gym twice a day, watch what I eat and have changed all my bad habits. Unfortunatley due to a thyroid condition and stress at my job which is constant the weight is not coming off. (cant change my job as part of our agreement when he moved home was that he quit his job after 25 years!!! to get away from OW and the feelings she kept bringing back and went back to school for his teaching credential. He still has 3 semesters left so I am the only income and to change would reduce that) I am in good shape but chubby. He uses that as his excuse. He uses anything he can. Unless we go away and stay at a hotel or it is a special occasion he will do anything to avoid the sex. When we do have sex, he wont touch certain parts of my body such as stomach or hips, wont kiss, no oral) He wont say ILY either.
How does this make me feel>? Worthless. Ugly. Undeserving. Doormat. Checkbook. like I made the biggest mistake in my life. I am obsessed by the lack of sex in our relationship. Went to MC when he came back and ironed out everything but this which he will not discuss. When I bring it up, he gets angry and says that he should just leave that all I want to do is create drama where there is none. He says that school and coaching baseball at the college is all he can do right now. These things are effortless to him, where our relationship requires effort that he just cant make right now. I feel sick and cheated. He had none of these issues with the OW's. He says when he was with them, his life was stress free and it was easy to be with them, but I offer the opportunity of a lifetime, a paid education that he does not have to work and I am too much effort. Most days I just wish I could run away and not feel anymore.
H isnt so great in the physical looks dept either these days. I never say anything but compliment him but he has a stomach and does not work out, but when he was with the OW he did to make himself better for her since she was younger and thin. He also has performance problems and cannot finish what he starts sometimes. says it is because he is out of shape and runs out of breath.
If I had no sex drive or the need for this connection to heal, life would be great. Unfortunately for me it is not the case. As for what I am doing now, I keep my thoughts to myself, show nothing on the outside at all. I am dying inside and dont know how much longer I can hang on.
I feel as if he is plugged into my hip with an extension cord, sapping all my energy and giving nothing in return. As some science-fiction/fantasies state "Drinking of my essence". I have aged easily 10 years in the last 3 with this delema. It is not in the least bit healthy. Yet from a judicial settlement point of view the courts would not be kind to me, adding more stress to the desission.