Quote: Ooops...sorry, I started making this about me.
No, please continue. I understand everything that you (and my H) are saying. I tend to go with GGB on his 'higher level' intimacy/R, to which, I thought, we were getting closer... but then convos like last night happen and I think I must be kidding myself.
This is so very sad, because I see the HD side so very clearly.
But, OTOH, I have a body that only sporadically experiences true horniness, and in the absence of that, I can only offer up my willingness, and I can offer only so much of that if my needs aren't getting met.
Between the last post and this, I was tucking in my W and what you were saying started to sink in a little more and I realized how you must be hurting. I then thought about how frustrating it must have been for my W in the past year when I was pushing so hard. Granted, we learned a lot about communication and we really did a masterful job at narrowing the gap between us, but the C really helped me chill out about changing her. I'm sure she's disappointed in me in certain ways. I sometimes see her gushing over beautiful houses and certain cars which I can't afford. Hell, I was genetically disposed to be a college dropout and I'm doing the absolute best I can with the tools I was born with...sorry sweety. I remember one poster who justified his HD position by talking about all of his financial success and material things he provided his W. Over the past year I've learned that there's very little I can do to change her feelings. Maybe it's a good thing that external stimuli don't make her horny...maybe it would work against me or make me feel inadequate. I never looked at the downside of having a spouse whose horniness can be controlled by other things. It might come at a cost. Wow, imagine seeing her horniness disappear during a financial crisis that I was responsible for...it would make me feel like my world was falling apart. Maybe I should appreciate the predictable consistency of my W. Crap...who knows.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: That's just it, Dave. I don't have any horniness for me OR him to control. It's not like it's in there and I'm withholding it on purpose. If it was in there, he could have every last drop of it.
Corri, reading this thread is helping me to understand my W so much more. She is in the ND category herself although she no longer does what she doesn't feel any desire for.
Now in reading your posts it seems you are far more frustrated by your H's inability to "understand" where "YOU" are on the subject of sexual desire than having to "force" yourself regularly. Even if he were able to just "accept" where "YOU" are and continue the M without complaints about his/your SL as it is, you would still long for him to "understand" you.
Lets see if I can relate to your feelings.
Physically and mentally, a colorblind person cannot understand the color red. To us it has power, passion, heat, love..... it has meanings that no other color will convey like it can. Yet to the colorblind person they can see that the red is different than the other colors in the palette but they will never "understand" the meaning.... to them it is just another shade of gray. It does not mean that they cannot "accept" its meaning and even enjoy using colors to try and enhance their life as it relates to other people but, to them the bright red paper wrapping on a valentine gift is'nt needed.
As love is the shading to a relationship, sex and intimacy are the colors. The colorblind person sees and requires the shading as much as anyone else but the color is not even seen by them and never can be(never is long time). Corri is colorbind which does not matter to Corri except in how she relates to other people, specifically Mr. Crayola. She can have and even enjoy sex with Mr. Crayola but will never "need" sex to be complete in her relationship, only love.
If Mr. Corri were to formulate an analogy of his own and then state it to you showing he truly understood, I bet you would be back in the BJ business within minutes... with love.
The only advice I can give is for you to learn how to be a better actress. You might even do some study (of your own, on your own) on porn films, not to become aroused, but to learn how to act like you are. Learn some drama, take classes if you have to, then inject some role playing into your R and SL. If your in control of his SL (which I agree you are) then take the damn wheel and drive. Talk to Mr. Corri to see if he'll mind trading off increased frequency for increased quality. You can vary the frequency to avoid being in a rut. As for what you get out of the deal its still a loss for you but it is for him too. Would you rather bake cupcakes every night or a 3 layer-cake once a week. You need to become the prime driver leading the SL in a way that works best for you and Hey!....he might even give you your chair back.
Quote: I think to myself, "well shiit yeah, if I had a bottomless well of desire, you'd have to strap on five more peters to keep up with me, baby."
I think that your understanding of what it is like to be a HD is misguided and leans toward extremeism. Its like accusing your spouse of being a sex maniac. This is probably as noticeable to Mr. Corri as his lack of understanding is to you. He doesn't appear to know how to articulate this to you or may not even know that this is important to him.
Just use the colorblind analogy again. You have stated that you cannot for the life of you discern any colors. Try to imagine the "Wizard of Oz" movie. Its about as close as you can get to an understanding. I am a bit sorry for you but also envious because you have no distractions when it comes to the shading.
Quote: This is so very sad, because I see the HD side so very clearly.
But, OTOH, I have a body that only sporadically experiences true horniness, and in the absence of that, I can only offer up my willingness, and I can offer only so much of that if my needs aren't getting met.
Dunno....
Corri
Does your H know that he is killing your love? Does he know that the most precious thing in his life is going away and might never come back? Maybe you control the sex: does he know that he controls the love? He is not comfortable verbally expressing his love for you, but he doesn't understand how hard it is for you to make love to him when he throws words of affection around like they are manhole covers. There must be a place inside of you where you wonder if he really loves you.
I lay in bed next to my wife and she's a million miles away. It feels like absolute zero. I killed her love a long time ago, and I don't know if it will ever come back. If your husband knew what was at risk, maybe he would change.
SM
P.S. I apologize for the tone of my posts. My brain is addled with insomnia and a sentimental novel that I'm reading
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Quote: Did anybody here understand what **I** was saying about being on the other side of the fence? This part:
As a fellow LDer, I'll cast my vote, all 3/5ths of it...
Yes. I get it.
I don't have the hormones/chemicals that facilitates in me a level of sexual desire equivalent to NOP's. So, when we make love, on my part it is primarily heart/head driven with body following. Our relationship disconnected over the years in part because NOP didn't relate to me with a similar amount of giving of himself in other areas of our relationship that I deemed important. I was never trading XYZ for sex, nor was it some housetask driven thing. I wanted him to spend time participating with *me* in activities/functions that I found interesting. I thought that would come out of his heart/head even when I knew it wasn't his cup o' tea. When it didn't happen as often as I preferred, or when it became an ongoing point of contention, or when he was just barely tolerating being there, I assumed that I was unimportant to him outside of *his* areas of interest. Which made it appear that he enjoyed being with me only as long as we were doing something he really enjoyed doing. Without having the sexual drive to draw from to fuel the sex, my heart/head desire dried up. And thus did our descent begin.
Sometimes I want to scream at him because it is SO easy for him to tap into physical desire. It's a well with no bottom. I think to myself, "well shiit yeah, if I had a bottomless well of desire, you'd have to strap on five more peters to keep up with me, baby." He has absolutely no appreciation whatsoever of what I go through for him to find water for he has never, ever, ever, been without, and can't even imagine what it would be like to NOT have water.
I confess to letting my imperfect responses rise up occasionally in regards to the "want you to desire me" aspects of the LD/HD struggle especially when that desire is being required to be expressed in a certain way or otherwise it doesn't count, or it isn't special enough, or good enough, or turn you on enough. And I confess to wondering sometimes, if your drive is so high, then as long as your partner is truly loving and sexually willing (and I'm not talking about laying there like a corpse), why is there some additional ritual that must be followed?
These are my thoughts from a LD perspective. They aren't accusations. They aren't meant to piss anyone off.
Bear in mind my bias and I'll bow the head (okay, really I'll just lower my eyes) to the possible influx of 2x4 responses, so here goes. Also, the following exempts the extremes of abuse, mental illness, bad past experiences, etc. and the use of "you" throughout is rhetorical, not specific. Also, keep in mind that I am not advocating that it is maritally healthy or acceptable for a couple to not ML on a regular basis (and no that doesn't mean regularly once a year).
In my worst times, I find it incredibly *something* (don't know exactly what word to stick in here, except that it's not pleasant) - maybe the generic "troubling" would be the word, when I hear expressions of "I want them to want me the way I want them".
I wonder if you realize what you are asking.
Because much of your wanting is based on biochemical and hormonal influences that are just a physical part of you.
You didn't work for them. You didn't earn them. You didn't study them. You didn't train them. You can't easily influence them. (Dust of Rhino horn doesn't *really* work.)
The wanting is tuned (and rightly so) toward your spouse, BUT that *drive* would be there even if your spouse wasn't.
I understand that sexual *desire* can be piqued, it can be tuned, it can be enhanced, but sexual *drive* is whatever your hormones are dictating.
The way *you* desire is being impacted by your hormones. The *depth* of your desire is being impacted by your hormones. The *frequency* of your desire is being impacted by your hormones. The *expression* of your desire is being impacted by your hormones.
And you are expecting the reciprocal *feelings & expressions* from people who don't have the hormonal/chemical balance you do. It's like expecting the insulin-resistant diabetic to respond to sugar the way the non-diabetic does.
If someone is there to make love to you, with you, and they are there because they love you, they're there even if the sexual expression is coming from the heart/head rather than their hormones - why is that viewed as a lesser thing? Why is a conscious choice to make love something lesser than one that is strongly hormonally influenced?
I am not advocating that either side gets to say "tough noogies, that's just the way I am and you'll have to deal." My thoughts really only apply to those couples who are actively working together toward a solution. Those of you still dealing with a spouse who won't acknowledge the need are at a different place. But those of you who have climbed a few rungs on the ladder might want to reconsider what you are expecting.
If you have a spouse who is stepping up and trying to work out a satisfactory sex life with you, be careful that you don't elevate your chemically/hormonally driven expressions of sexual desire as the goal which your lower drive spouse should be attaining.
I *am* advocating that there be some concept of living with each other in an understanding way. Not just barely tolerating. That goes for high & low.
But that can only happen if both partners are talking. And listening. And willing. And adjusting.
Quote: If someone is there to make love to you, with you, and they are there because they love you, they're there even if the sexual expression is coming from the heart/head rather than their hormones - why is that viewed as a lesser thing? Why is a conscious choice to make love something lesser than one that is strongly hormonally influenced?
Very well put. Making a conscious choice to make love is something greater than relying on a hormonally driven response.
Beware the notion, however, of classifying the sexual desire of those of us with a relatively high sex drive as being "hormonal". Sometimes we get painted as animals who only want to use our spouses as sex toys. This hurts, because those hormonal pressures usually come all mixed up and confounded with affection, playfulness, need for intimacy and closeness, and, dare I say, love.
Mr. Corri and Nopkins are lucky dudes indeed for having wives who will get on that ladder with them.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Quote: Very well put. Making a conscious choice to make love is something greater than relying on a hormonally driven response.
I wouldn't say that it was greater. How does one possibly measure that sort of thing? It is different. That a HD spouse takes their high drive and focuses that desire on their spouse is also a choice and to be commended.
Quote: Beware the notion, however, of classifying the sexual desire of those of us with a relatively high sex drive as being "hormonal". Sometimes we get painted as animals who only want to use our spouses as sex toys. This hurts, because those hormonal pressures usually come all mixed up and confounded with affection, playfulness, need for intimacy and closeness, and, dare I say, love.
I know that HD spouses are often devastated by the damaging interactions that can occur during the intimacy battle. Attributing the higher drive to hormones was not an attempt to animalize - I know that folks have done so, but it was not my intention. Similarly, some LDs convince themselves that their lack of drive was a result of more evolved spirituality or greater self-control. Horse-pucky on that generalization, too.
My heart goes out to the HD participants here. This relationship stuff doesn't come easy, does it?
WB wrote {{The HD is horny, but realizes that you just ML two days ago. The LD has a history of not being receptive more than maybe once a week. The HD exercises self-control and doesn’t make a move. The LD knows nothing about this, but the HD sees this as the LD controlling the SL.}}
Add to that, the HD person is often frustrated being around the LD so the HD person finds something to do away from the LD and then the LD feels neglected, even less sexy, and the R goes down hill slowly for several years till they are room mates.
Corri, I do see you extending yourself if you have sex with your H 2 or 3 times a week. I wish your H appreciated your gift to him.
Like other HD H's have said, I want my W to feel like her pants are melting and she has to rip hers and mine off sometimes. I know that is not going to happen. If she decided to happily* "gift" me sex a couple times a week I would see it as a loving act from her and appreciate it for the feelings of love she had for me. *(no sighs, eye rolls, etc)
I wish your H had the same attitude. It sure would go a long way toward maintaing an emotional connection where you felt like you had a stable and loving M.
