Just wanted to check in. You sound like you are giving up. Are you? Your H is being a d*ck. In what he says and what he does - "entitlement" makes sense.
For reference, in my previous M my H had a big sense of entitlement. Swallowing felt too intimate in that scenario. I have no problem swallowing with my current H. He loves it and I enjoy it too.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their preference. I think if one isn't sure of their preference then it behooves the R to try it and see. As has become clear, swallowing is not the issue in your R but I'm not sure that your H's current feelings reflect a permanent condition. Hang in there!
I think you were the wise soul who once pointed out that it was more relevant whether you were the one who was HD about working on the relationship, rather than whether you were the one who was HD or LD about sex.
If this is the case, I think you and I find ourselves at similar crossroads in our relationships. I guess I'm still kind of hopeful because even though my H isn't really working much on our relationship right now, he has led me to believe that it is on his "to do" list for the future. Maybe your H hasn't really lost all hope or initiative. Do you have any idea why he is unwilling to go any further to meet your needs when I'm sure you have spelled them out quite clearly? Is he just being stubborn or could there be some issue of integrity he's not communicating?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I don't have any words of wisdom right now, but kudos to you for HOY so well. I understand your feeling of distance, calm, I've been there myself. I'll try, when I have time to think, to come up with something else to say.
I don't know that I am giving up. I think just last night, for the very first time, did I actually accept, truly accept, what I can change and what I cannot change about my relationship.
It was an unsettling but very necessary revelation.
Corri {{{{{{{{hugs to you}}}}}} --------------------------------------------------------------------- As I layed in bed in my rather stunned silence, I realized that I was also at peace, in a strange sort of way. I don't feel guilty, I don't feel like a failure, I don't feel defeated. If nothing else, I have exhonorated myself of responsibility for his half of the relationship -------------------------------------------------------------------
corri, If I were your H, in a couple of days some of this (the conversation you had with him) would sink in especially if I got a small hug or two in the next couple of days. Give the hugs just to let him know you want a R with him. Not the old R but one that you can live with. Also tell him you like a,b,and c but not d.
BTW, I think you did a great job telling your H not to dodge the issue you wanted to talk about. My W brings up all kinds of side issues when we have our R talks. Nothing gets solved.
OG Lou. "Just the facts Mam" Dragnet TV {{My H is having an affair. With his job.}} I plead guilty corri
My H and I both do what your H did (I am getting better at recognizing it in myself). Instead of acknowledging bad feelings within, we both start to think negative thoughts about each other...sometimes I catch myself, sometimes H has to remind me to snap out of my negativity towards him, and sometimes I have to do the same to him. Yes, we have the Bobsy twin style of fusion, so I have been on both sides of this.
It was wise and necessary for you to step in when you did. Keep holding on...I am hoping he'll develop some clarity soon.
It's interesting how he deflected what's going on for him by dwelling on the frequency issue...does he usually go down that road? I could see how it might have been effective in the past( when it was an issue), but he is going to have to come up with something better than that. Or maybe he has...the swallowing issue stirred you enough to post and question what is "typical" behavior. Don't let him undo any of the progress you made...this isn't about your sexual performance and I know you know that. This test that you are both going through ( and he is failing at miserably at the moment) is also a test of your strength and self-regard.
I was lured into this relationship BY her BJ's (as well as other things). She seemed to LIKE giving me BJ's for the first 4 years of our relationship. She would give them to me in the car while driving down the freeway. All of my most memorable sexaul experiences with her are BJ's. Several years into our marriage, she decides she no longer likes to do it and says it is yucky. So now, when we do have sex, I give her all kinds of foreplay and variety, then she rolls over and gives my just plain old sex. So I know she can give good BJ's, why on earth would it be so gross to her now? A passionate marriage requires VARIETY, for BOTH partners.
quote: --------- My H is having an affair. With his job. ---------
I don't know if you posted that to be nice about my concerns for your relationship or not. If so, then thanks for the kindness. If not, then I have to disagree.
Let me tell you what I see. I could be very wrong, and ultimately, it is probably a mix of a lot of things. I do have some particular concerns however.
It is well established that revisiting old affair partners (be they swap, emotional or other-physical) causes all kinds of problems in a relationship. This is why the most widely accepted recourse for reformed wayward spouses is non-contact with the illicit partner. This works for swapping as well.
I am bringing this up again for a number of reasons.
You and hubby were in a sexually starved marriage. You came here eventually (obviously) looking for support/answers as did I. You have made changes in your relationship and probably given more than your part of the issues back to the marriage in an effort to 'make up' for past problems.
Your husband has stepped up to the plate *some*, but not in direct proportions to your efforts. This is a problem.
More observations;
1) It is obvious that he has an exaggerated sense of entitlement in your sexual relationship. This is a problem.
2) His past experience and emotional connection to your 'girlfriend' is embedded in his mind as a 'good experience'. This is a problem.
3) (conjecture) He is laying in bed with you, his penis in your mouth, and thinks back to the 'girlfriend' and wonders why you can't be more like her. This is a problem.
4) He obviously loves you, and wonders why he can't have 'everything', the love, the history, kids, family, and better sex (his definition of better sex). This is a problem.
5) You just want it to get better. You want this so badly that you were even willing for a while, to suffer his injustice and give him what he thinks he needs anyway. This is a problem.
I know I have barely outlined the problem above, but how do you fix it?
In my opinion, the two of you must come to an ABSOLUTE AGREEMENT to address the issues (even if they are 'leftovers' such as the girlfriend), and agreement as to the basic repair and long term maintenance of your relationship afterward.
That means that you address the other woman/girlfriend issue. You address his MAINTAINABLE sexual needs, not wild fantasies. You address his lack of respect for you. You address his resentments of you.
Then both of you fix your respective issues.
Next, you figure out what the two of you need to do in order to maintain your repaired relationship. How many hours each day you spend together. Your emotional needs. His emotional needs. Etc..
What BOTH of you have to realize is simple, but very difficult.
You must BOTH accept responsibility for the condition of the relationship.
One person, be they low drive or high drive, can not maintain a relationship. That simple fact seems to allude all of us at times, but its undeniableness is what landed all of us here, in our respective quandaries, and on this forum.
Corri. You have done what you can do at this point in time for your relationship. Your husband simply must get involved in a very real and tangible way. You can't be the relationship keeper. You both must be. This is where you are at, in the normal procession of recovery.
Having said that, you will have to tell him the truth - you can't continue like this. He must get involved - DAILY. Work, outside activities, television, whatever, must take a back seat to the repair of your relationship for a while. If you two don't do this soon, then there will be consequences, bad ones. How important is his job if your two aren't together?
Please let me know what you think. -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I don't doubt that you have hit on something with the girlfriend. And she isn't in our lives... this was one of those instances where we happened to both be in the same place at the same time, kind of things.
Now that I am aware of how her presence may be affecting him, it will be corrected. She is uncomfortable around him, doesn't want to be around him... she knows more about the ups and downs of my marriage than probably anyone on the planet. Having said all that, however, I'd never be so naive as to discount what I ** don't know.**
There are things I know my H is not honest with me about... such as his deepest thoughts (ie., about the girlfriend. The only reason he told me about his continued contact with her is because when she and her ex-H confronted him, she told him that if he didn't tell me all about it, she would.)
I can tell when he's with me during LM, and when he is somewhere else. When he continues to do things after I've asked him to stop, when he shoots off in my mouth not five minutes after we've discussed it... my H is not with me.
This recent bout of treatment disturbs me far more than it does you. I'm still sorting through what I think and feel about this, especially in view of our discussion last night.
I appreciate you outlining these issues... now I don't have to But... there is a much more troubling feeling inside me that I have yet to identify.... and I am waiting for it to surface before I do anything.
I am so beyond anger. I'm not even close to it, and that really scares me. I don't know what this is. I'm not interested in a power play, I'm not intersted in control with him, I'm not interested in withholding, getting back, getting even, getting up, getting down... getting any way you want.
I'm not too tired, I'm not exhausted, I'm not defeated. I still love him. I'm just not interested.
He's 56 years old, way beyond this crap, IMHO. I'll give him a version of this list, with a nice little letter, and then he can decide what he wants/needs to do. I'm done taking the lead. I'm done running relationship rescue. If he wants to ask me for help, fine, I'll do what I can. I always do.
Will he step up to the plate? Beats the shiit outta me. I rather doubt it, but he could surprise me, you never know. I guess in thinking about last night, I thought we were so much further along than the tact he took. I wasn't interested in blame, I wasn't interested in making him a bad guy. I just wanted to find a solution. And all he can say is the relationship sucks.
Is this him being a guy and saying stupid guy stuff? Don't know, don't care. I've got kids to raise and other things I can do to keep myself busy. I'm not doing this anymore. I respect myself too much to yet again try and find the magic formula while he 'gives me room' to figure it out.
I will tell him exactly this so he is crystal clear on where I stand. So he knows. Otherwise, I'm just not interested.
Corri: I think your husband was rude in what he said...and I also think that he was blowing off steam. You have such a gift with words that I'm sure he often feels overwhelmed and saying "it sucks" in the manner of a teenage boy is the best he can come up with at the moment.
If you can, look past this comment to what he is really saying: he is not happy with the current status of the relationship. You aren't either. You said, in a much more eloquent and entertaining fashion, the same thing that he did yesterday. You told us how the R was spiraling downwards, etc. I think you are both on the same page wrt to the R status. He was going for the jugular with the "and it always has" comment...and it was particularly hurtful because you had laid yourself bare, in hopes of turning the tide.
So the issues are still there, waiting to be tackled. But I don't feel that he was making a statement that should be given too much significance. It appears it is weighing you down..that one thing he said...but I'm not sure it is an accurate reflection of his feelings.
I think he was just being an ass.
So, call him on being an ass. Talk about the issues. And THEN decide your next step.
But don't let a teenage boy determine the fate of your marriage. How sad is that.
Hugs to you, friend. I hope you both can lay your issues out tonight and come back tomorrow with a new resolve to spiral UP.
But... there is a much more troubling feeling inside me that I have yet to identify.... and I am waiting for it to surface before I do anything.