Karen, I've read DB, DR and 12 others. I'm pretty much following the prescription but am tapped out. I don't see progress and Lord knows I'm not a quiter but I can't figure W. Our joint counselor says there is no substitive reason for D nor does the C I visit on my own. I think it's hormones + spinal cord surgery + my years of controlling + she now works in a law office. She's still Polllyanna around our kids and friends and dotes over our D15 as if D15 is the only person in the world. D15 is a great compassionate kid with straight A's in all advanced courses but I see her withdrawing from this D. I dunno, I just wish I could see a sign and move on, either way. Thanks for the insight and bye-the-bye. How do I get this thread to pop up on my "Favorite Threads?" All the best, TAGIII