Your H definately showed some bad manners here. The question is - did he intend to? The intent is what makes it passive-agressive or not. Maybe he thought it was humorous. My ex-H used to say this kind of stuff in a humorous way as an attempt to really say "please love me even when I say juvenile bs".
I like Lous response. Another choice might be to expose the disconnected nature of a "bid" like that. You might say "Would you like fries with that?"
I think that there must be some action you can take or a sentance or two that could put things back on track without you having to take up the R guantlet. Sometimes if you just expose someone's crappiness it is enough to move things.
Your H definately showed some bad manners here. The question is - did he intend to? The intent is what makes it passive-agressive or not. Maybe he thought it was humorous. My ex-H used to say this kind of stuff in a humorous way as an attempt to really say "please love me even when I say juvenile bs".
I like Lous response. Another choice might be to expose the disconnected nature of a "bid" like that. You might say "Would you like fries with that?"
I think that there must be some action you can take or a sentance or two that could put things back on track without you having to take up the R guantlet. Sometimes if you just expose someone's crappiness it is enough to move things.
Your H definately showed some bad manners here. The question is - did he intend to? The intent is what makes it passive-agressive or not. Maybe he thought it was humorous. My ex-H used to say this kind of stuff in a humorous way as an attempt to really say "please love me even when I say juvenile bs".
I like Lous response. Another choice might be to expose the disconnected nature of a "bid" like that. You might say "Would you like fries with that?"
I think that there must be some action you can take or a sentance or two that could put things back on track without you having to take up the R guantlet. Sometimes if you just expose someone's crappiness it is enough to move things.
LB wrote: ------------- NOP, are you able to express the changes you made in your interactions with MrsNOP that caused her to reevaluate where she existed on your “importance scale?” I believe from your posts that in your mind she was always important to you, as my W is to me. In and of itself, however, that did not prevent both of our W’s from feeling that they were not being treated in a way that reflected their importance. I also know that your career is demanding and I don’t believe that changed much. Did you give up your other hobbies? -------------
Hi, Bill.
It is very common for a man to focus on providing for a family, almost to the exclusion of said family. I am as guilty of that as anyone else.
What I really did wrong was to ignore doing the things that were important to HER. I thought I was doing well by concentrating on all the things that *I thought* a husband should concentrate on, while ignoring her simple requests as unimportant.
I was not being malicious, just dumb. From that seed grew a tree of resentment in my wife. Mutual resentment grew from neither one of us meeting each others basic needs.
I really didn't have to give up anything, what I did have to do was to make sure that my interests included my wife's needs. Sounds simple, huh?
Now, let me change the subject over to your relationship. Right up front, I have to tell you that I will be happy to answer your queries as best I can, and offer whatever help I can, but (there is always a but), the ongoing affair on your wife's part in your relationship is of great concern.
So, let me say this right up front so that there is no misunderstanding. My personal belief is that it is nearly impossible to fix a relationship that involves an outside intimate party. I know that this opinion regarding infidelity is not shared among many of the counselors on this website.
Having said that, and having read much of what you have written here, I have to tell you that I think your very first move is to address your wife's affair, straight up and honestly. If you don't have enough proof after all this time, consider hiring a private investigator. When you have absolute proof, then confront your wife.
I know you have done an incredible job of recognizing and correcting your contribution to the state of your marriage, but you must realize that your wife's choice to involve a third person in your marriage was hers and hers alone. It is not your fault that she made a bad choice as opposed to either working on the issues with you or ending the relationship via divorce.
Regardless of all that, I think that it is imperative that your ex-friend and now adulterer, be removed completely from your relationship with your wife.
You must also consider returning to cohabitation with your wife. It is very difficult for a relationship to grow long distance. I think that demonstration is a great tool for effecting repair in a relationship, but in order for demonstration to be effective after a point, confrontation must be included. It is hard to confront from a distance.
For your own mental and physical health, you must also place a time limit on your willingness to try and resolve the relational issues. At some point, you will find your thoughts move toward disgust with your wife, because of her actions.
These are just my opinions, and I am not a trained counselor.
Since all that is out of the way, we can talk :-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: I really didn't have to give up anything, what I did have to do was to make sure that my interests included my wife's needs.
Can you elaborate a bit on that, NOP? For instance, did that include carving out a time during the day just for her? What tangible things did you do differently?
I don't think that it has registered yet, with my H, that meeting my needs means changing his daily routine in a tangible way to actually include time carved out just for me. I believe that he still thinks that it will naturally happen on its own, if it was meant to be on that particular day. Of course, this is never going to happen on its own; we will constantly need to provide a space in which we can reconnect with each other.
I do believe he will come to this realization (perhaps even without me dragging him by his fingernails) but I was wondering if there was a point in which you began living your day differently, in order to meet her needs.
We've conciously made time each day to spend reconnecting, typically about an hour and a half after the kids are settled for bed. Previously, we were living what WWME called the "married singles" lifestyle, where each of us would go do our own thing in the evening, usually not even in the same room. Now, we try to do some of the routine shopping together, leaving S15 in charge of the brood while we slip out, and in the evenings try to be at least in the same room so we can chat as we go about our things if our schedule isn't allowing focused time together.
Quote: Can you trace back to an event or encounter that seemed to precipitate this crappy attitude?
Yeah, the day he got promoted at work. LOL!
Thanks, all, for the comments. I really appreciate them. NOP, I realize I am now at a point where I either have to grab the wheel, stop the car, and hit his dumb stupid man-azz upside the head with my R-Badge, or I can hit the wall with him.
Honey, I realize that when he said, "our sex life sucks," was his way of saying that the relationship has gone off course... I'm fighting the hurt that comes with such abrasiveness. I mean, how would you feel if Mr. HP said to you, "I think the quality of our religious discussions really suck and your efforts to date in that department of our R really suck." I'm sure you'd be very tempted to look him in the eye and tell him where to stick it, hm?
I'm still pondering how to address this. It's gotta be some kind of boundary thing and I don't think I've clearly set one.
I'm thinking about gathering up all my R books (I have several), putting them in one box, and leaving him a note that says:
Dear Mr. Corri:
Yes, indeed, our sex life sucks. Here are a few books that might be of help.
Corri said: ------------- I'm still pondering how to address this. It's gotta be some kind of boundary thing and I don't think I've clearly set one. -------------
For a while, I was certain that MrsNOP was a nasty mean bitch that intended to screw with my head and heart by avoiding sex with me.
For a while, MrsNOP couldn't comprehend how I could intentionally ignore, in fact, dismiss her needs.
The truth is that neither of us were intentionally being malicious. We were both guarding our own hearts and interests.
I don't think you need a boundary. I think you need for your husband to really understand the problem. Boundaries are a good thing and work well where needed, but a boundary won't legislate the need for relational negotiation. That takes real effort from both spouses, even if that effort is initially unbalanced.
I am really sorry that your feelings are hurt. If I could, I would punch him in the arm and say "Geez, wake up, man. You are hurting your wife". It looks like you will have to do it instead.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thanks for your response and your thoughts. I’m going to address your points in reverse order.
Whatever inappropriate contact was occurring between my W and my “friend” ended around the time we began our physical separation in April ’04. I know she had some innocuous email contact in July, but then nothing since that time.
My personal belief regarding the ultimate repair of our relationship mirrors your own. I appreciate your honest comments on this subject. I do not think that true repair or rebuilding can occur while a third party is also intimately involved. My personal choice to defer (notice I said defer, not ignore) a confronting regarding her actions is based upon my near certain belief that no further contact exists between my W and my former friend.
I’ll take a page from Jenny’s book of analogies: at the time of my separation I viewed my marriage like a damn that had been severely eroded over time and whose very foundation was in danger of imminent collapse. Had I confronted my W, particularly early in this journey, it almost certainly, in my mind, would have washed away the rest of the damn and we would be divorced by now. Instead, I chose to see whether I could shore up the foundation sufficiently before choosing to confront my W about the EA. Undoubtedly this confrontation will cause some further damage to the damn but hopefully the foundation can withstand such damage now that it could not have withstood before.
Unfortunately, because no one else knows of the affair, we all are still invited to many of the same events by mutual friends. Being forced to ostracize myself (and my W) from many of these events so that the three of us are not there at the same time is one of the things I have hated most.
As to the cohabitation, the goal of the “sleepovers” is to act as a bridge from separation back toward living together. I completely agree that much of the work in our relationship cannot truly occur until we are both living under the same roof. There is, however, a reluctance on the part of my W to return to cohabitation too quickly. She fears that she would not be strong enough to put our daughters through a second separation and divorce and that she would be “trapped” if we were to get back together and things were to return to the point they were at before. I must also admit that I am not prepared to return to cohabitation until the confrontation over the affair has occurred.
Finally, I second honey’s request for a bit of elaboration on some of the general statements you made in your earlier response if that is something you, or MrsNOP, would be comfortable doing.
I concur with your general statements, as do many self-help books, about altering your focus so that you were not ignoring doing things that were important to MrsNOP and by making sure that your interests included your wife’s needs. Did she come right out and give you a list?
I know that all relationships are different and that my mileage may very, but are there a couple of specifics you would be wiling to share? B
Oh Corri, I was NOT sticking up for how he approached you. I WOULD HAVE told him to stick it and you know that's true. No matter what the words were..religious discussion, sex, whatever, I hate being talked to in a disrespectful way. Yessssssss, I know what you're thinking..pot calling kettle black and all that nonsense.
I think your response was perfect.
All I was saying was that he is trying to get the R back on track and he does not expect you to carry the burden all by your lonesome. But at this point the only remedy he can think of is to have more sex. I don't think anyone would accuse our husbands of being fast learners, lol.
I like the book idea but you know I'm an action girl.
I don't know...would he ever read an R book?
I think you're on to something though with continuing to fine tune your boundary.
I think it should include the following: Don't speak disrespectfully to me and find a better way to ask for bj's, azzhole.
