This is something I should think about. My H and I have been too much in each other's company lately. Perhaps that's why his desire has dampened somewhat. He has started taking courses on Mondays and Tuesdays, and I am doing a Creative Writing course on Tuesdays, so perhaps this will give us some space too.
Slowly, this piecing thing is almost as difficult as getting one's H back.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
I think there’s a difference between „asking for what you want“ because you deserve it, and “nagging” for something because you’re insecure. Which can be the same thing, by the way.
Totally confused yet?
As in ….. you can ask NG to talk to you/help with cooking because you deserve not to slave in the kitchen while honey is on the couch (metaphorically) ….. or you can ask him to join you because you feel insecure about your relationship if he doesn’t. One is from a position of strength, the other from a position of weakness. Our spouses pick up on the difference, trust me. Realizing (down to your bones) that you’re a fabulous person and that NG is one lucky fella to have you is the key. So keep doing the stuff that is making YOU feel good about YOU!!
As for being a bit “mysterious” and a little less available, I’m all for it.
Hi LnL - Yes, I often think of sharing the love languages book with NG, but honestly, he is just not ready to think of my needs
Quote: Many guys are just not that into card giving, leaving notes, little gifts, marking special occasions etc. Is NG one of those, or has he just changed recently?
No, he has not changed at all - that's my point. Why go through all this pain only to fall back to old patterns We did have an interesting chat yesterday when he asked me why I was upset on Monday. I told him that at least an acknowledgement of my card, perhaps a hug, would have been nice. To just ignore it was painful. He had nothing to say.
A little later he tells me he is struggling with his guilt, and sometimes is just unable to engage with me. That he regrets the a, that he was 'taken advantage' of by ow. I reminded (yeah, stupid me) him that he used to maintain that it was he who started the a, and therefore it was his 'responsibility' to make sure the ending is as painless for her as possible. To which he responded, its always the woman chasing the man. Hmmm. I'm not sure where he is going with this, but by my reckoning, NG is a long way from being healed, if he is still unable to confront his role in the a.
Hi Sage - Thanks for the hug - I need it! Its been an interesting couple of days, by Tuesday night I was ready to pack the whole relationship in and be a walkaway myself And now here I am, almost back at 'we are almost ok' phase. Hmmm. Lesson here - feelings don't last. Duh.
Yes, I am taking care of myself a bit more. Had a blast with some friends yesterday afternoon. Had dinner with NG and his business associate last night, was able to just enjoy being there. NG really opened up on our way home, about his work, bragged a bit about how well he is doing, and he is. I'm now wondering if WOA is perhaps his top LL. I used to think its quality time. More to observe.
Hi Pen - Aha - I do see the difference. Plus your previous suggestion on being light and flirty. My problem is breaking the habit of 20 years - I've always been a bit insular, and have preferred my space, and inevitably dug a 'chore hole' for myself. Right now, I'm not yet good at even asking, never mind nagging, for what I want. NG is just doing what he always did, gave me the space. Except I've changed, and he has not noticed Time for some 180s. Any thoughts?
Your post brought out this response, I hope you don't fnd it preachy, it is just an accumulation of thoughts that I have picked up after much reading and sharing and observing on this BB and elsewhere.
Quote: Hi LnL - Yes, I often think of sharing the love languages book with NG, but honestly, he is just not ready to think of my needs
Quote: Many guys are just not that into card giving, leaving notes, little gifts, marking special occasions etc. Is NG one of those, or has he just changed recently?
No, he has not changed at all - that's my point. Why go through all this pain only to fall back to old patterns
One thing I'd like to point out, is that if someone is not that into gift giving, cards etc, it is very likely that this is because it was not a ritual in HIS family while growing up. Not a part of the family culture. Would I be right there? If so, then it is very much something that your H can't get his head around, so it is NOT something DIRECTED at you in any way, and you mustn't personalise it.
Have you read the Four Agreements book? It is important not to personalise everything that people do and say, or don't do and say. The fact that your H hasn't given you a card or acknowledged yours, is NOT a reflection of how lovable or worthy you are, but reflects HIS state of mind. He is incapable of understanding how importabnt it is to you because of his own limitations at this time.
I am sure we are all aware, by now, that when WE feel good, and loved, and secure, we are so much more capable and likely to be generous and giving and compassionate to others. Even if those others are not themselves being loving and giving. We can view them with compassion and patience, because we have big reserves of self-esteem ourselves.
And another thing - all these special days, like New Year's Day, Valentine's day etc, have so many expectations built into them. We must have a long list of amazing resolutions worked out for the New Year. But guess what, any resolution worth making is worth making any day of the year, you don't need to wait till New Year's day to make it. Likewise, when your H is ready to show you love and affection and acknowledge your specialness, he will do so regardless of the day it is. So don't hang on to THAT day. Give your H some time and space to resolve his difficulties. Carry on being the kind and loving and patient Slowly that you are, without thought of (immediate) returns from him. When you give him a card, you are expressing YOUR love for him. Looks like right now it needs to be unconditional.
We did have an interesting chat yesterday when he asked me why I was upset on Monday. I told him that at least an acknowledgement of my card, perhaps a hug, would have been nice. To just ignore it was painful. He had nothing to say.
A little later he tells me he is struggling with his guilt, and sometimes is just unable to engage with me. That he regrets the a, that he was 'taken advantage' of by ow. I reminded (yeah, stupid me) him that he used to maintain that it was he who started the a, and therefore it was his 'responsibility' to make sure the ending is as painless for her as possible. To which he responded, its always the woman chasing the man. Hmmm. I'm not sure where he is going with this, but by my reckoning, NG is a long way from being healed, if he is still unable to confront his role in the a.
Well, you've said it, now it's up to your H to own responsibility for the A and start to come to terms with it, forgive himself, and then ask it of you, or for you to forgive him off your own bat.
Have you indeed forgiven him, or are you waiting till he owns up, and apologises?
Others reading this, does this need to happen first? Or can our prior forgiveness precipate owning up to the responsibility and the offering of an apology?
And Slowly, have you explicitely owned up to any of your shortcomings to your H?
I wish I knew how this is going to pan out
You cannot know how this is going to pan out, as it isn't engraved in stone anywhere. It actually depends on YOU and your H and how you go forward. Every action/non action, every day, is a fork in the road, and we are making decisions EVERY single day of our lives about which option of the fork to take.
Same with your H, he doesn't KNOW where this will go! Your actions will nudge him one way or the other.
Slowly
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Funny, I was told the same thing by a guy friend who had an affair with his wife's friend. The OW is back with her H, but Guy Friend and his W are still separated.
I wonder if this is another one of those lines they all say...
Quote: To which he responded, its always the woman chasing the man. Hmmm. I'm not sure where he is going with this, but by my reckoning, NG is a long way from being healed, if he is still unable to confront his role in the a.
You know, Slowly, I have a different take on this, and I think it is a GREAT sign that he's saying this!
Now - mind you I am NOT excusing him for his responsibility in starting the affair - BUT - let's face it. Women use their wiles to get guys into Rs with them, often in ways that are so manipulative that the guy doesn't even know what hit him. I think women are much more devious than men usually in this regard.
In the initial stages of reconnection, the WAH still thinks it was a "great love". It is only later that they start to realize that they were had - that the OW was just telling them what they wanted to hear to reel them in, and that what seemed like genuine concern for HIM was really just her trying to fill HER need to WIN a guy.
I know my H's OW found him when he was depressed and vulnerable, and reeled him in by faking an interest in surfing (H later told me she was HORRIBLE at it ), playing helpless ("oh, I wouldn't know how to pick out a wetsuit, would you go to the store with me?"), then faking a broken dinner date ("Oh, my brother cancelled dinner on me" - getting my H to offer her to go to dinner with him and kids while I was out of town), then later saying "oh, you're going on a business trip to Hawaii? Gosh, I've always wanted to go there, but I could never afford it" (to which my H, by then on the hook, but also an inherently generous soul, said "well, I'm staying in a big place there, you could come and share the apartment if you want").
Sure, my H should have never taken any of those steps. But she definitely was on the hunt - and H never realized it at the time. It was only later, after we had been reconciled for a while, that he realized he had been had.
So - I think it's a GREAT sign that your H finally realizes this about women, and no longer thinks of OW as some innocent who just had the bad fortune to fall in love with irresistible him.
Plus - I'm sure the guilt is eating him alive. Even now, my H just can't dicuss certain topics (relating to how badly he treated me during that time) without practically breaking down.
So how about shifting the focus onto the positive future?
You know, my H thinks that OW 1 is some swell person and they had a 'deep connection' and all that. Well, when we had our somewhat R talk on Christmas day, one of the things I mentioned was that OW 1 HAD been manipulative. I know, I saw her emails to him and his to her, and she WAS supposed to be a friend, remember. H also reiterated that they only became physical after he 'finished' with me (ie, dropped the bomb). When I pointed out that he had cultivated 'deep' connections with both OW before he said a thing to me, and that it constituted 'laying the foundations' for PAs, he agreed. Said he hadn't thought of it that way, but he supposed so.
I didn't belabour the point, but I think the penny dropped for him, somehow.
I am now adopting some of the guerrila seduction tactics that these two OW used to reel my H in...
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Well, I’m one OW who didn’t do the pursuing. If I’d really intended to “reel” someone in I’d have picked a much better target – single, no kids, and a great deal richer. *sigh*
I’ve also seen so many married men hit on both me and my girlfriends (without any encouragement, I may add) that I can say from my own personal experience that it is usually the man who initiates, not the woman. Experiences may vary.
Slowly --- you say you had a blast going out together. Do you do this often? Like, at least once a week? Do you feel more “connected” to each other when you do, and is it something you could work into your routine more often?
Slowly 
), playing helpless ("oh, I wouldn't know how to pick out a wetsuit, would you go to the store with me?"), then faking a broken dinner date ("Oh, my brother cancelled dinner on me" - getting my H to offer her to go to dinner with him and kids while I was out of town), then later saying "oh, you're going on a business trip to Hawaii? Gosh, I've always wanted to go there, but I could never afford it" (to which my H, by then on the hook, but also an inherently generous soul, said "well, I'm staying in a big place there, you could come and share the apartment if you want").