Yeah, my W is the same way. I get the Groucho Marx raising and lowering of the eyebrows, the comments about getting rid of the kids, the hand on the thigh, etc., etc., etc., but no follow through. As they say in the song, I need a little less talk and a lot more action.
WB, She sounds really immature in her approach to sex. Almost as if she thinks it's all a big joke. I can somewhat see how she would think that..it seems that every other sitcom out there is making one inane joke about sex after another, but come on!
Have you ever just outright asked her what her intent is when she does that? Not in an antagonistic way but just "You know, W, I'm not sure what you mean by that..are you initiating sex?"
I find that a lot of LD people are loathe to own their own sexual feelings and prefer instead to shove it all off on their partner...Oh OKAY, I will give in to you but ONLY because you want it so much.
And this happens coincidentally around their period every single month or whatever!
Hang in there, I am feeling a new empathy and kindness towards you since you are my H's long lost twin.
I think this one needs a line by line reply. A lot of it is very close to home.
Quote: She sounds really immature in her approach to sex. Almost as if she thinks it's all a big joke. I can somewhat see how she would think that..it seems that every other sitcom out there is making one inane joke about sex after another, but come on!
Quite accurate. I think her psycho-sexual development stopped at the adolescent level. More on that later.
Quote: Have you ever just outright asked her what her intent is when she does that? Not in an antagonistic way but just "You know, W, I'm not sure what you mean by that..are you initiating sex?"
I haven’t done it exactly like that, but I have tried to find out exactly what her intentions are. As you know, there are very rigid rules, not only about actions, but also about words. The only acceptable way to refer to sex is “fooling around”, except for the occasional Mel Brooks imitation where I move my hand back and forth with my index finger extended and intone, “Hump or death” (from History of the World: Part I). Sadly, she always chooses death.
But back to the subject at hand. I’ve asked her very specifically if she means that she wants to fool around, if that means we can fool around later, or whatever time frame seems most appropriate to the individual sitch. But as you said, she invariably makes a joke of it. The best I’ve ever gotten from her was another suggestive, “You never know…” It’s more like she’s acting in way that she’s somehow expected to act than any real expression of something within her. You know, couples are supposed to want to get rid of the kids for a little adult play time, so she acts the part. The problem is that she really doesn’t have any interest in the play time, she’s just acting the part.
Quote: I find that a lot of LD people are loathe to own their own sexual feelings and prefer instead to shove it all off on their partner...Oh OKAY, I will give in to you but ONLY because you want it so much.
I’ve also addressed the part about her not owning her sexuality before. You already know that W finds sex distasteful. You remember the “gross” comment about the couple in the car and the light bulb coming on for me, right? With her allegations of abuse, her hatred of men, her reactions to sex, and her behavior during sex, I’ve come to believe that there really is a passionate, sensuous W in there. But something in her past, be it specific incidents or just general atmosphere, something has caused her to bury that sexuality and is making her keep it locked down tight. While there is very little outward sign of it, I still believe that there is a passionate woman in there if I can just figure out how to spring her from the cage W keeps her in.
Quote: And this happens coincidentally around their period every single month or whatever!
Yep, quite coincidentally! Before the hysterectomy, that was exactly it. Her once a month interest was right after her P. Every time. I know she didn’t like the P, but I kind of looked forward to it; it meant that my monthly HJ wasn’t far away.
Quote: Hang in there, I am feeling a new empathy and kindness towards you since you are my H's long lost twin.
And last of all, it is pretty scary. Except for the HD/LD thing, your H and I do sound very much alike.
HP. That is quite correct about being horny during part of the cycle. Although for my W it was always about a week and a half prior to her period arriving, kind of at the mid-point in her cycle. So I've always watched her closely for that point. As for most of the last 8 years that was the only time of the month that anything might happen. So my rules were: 1) watch for the mid-point in her cycle, as this the point when due to mother nature's urges it is the best point to get pregnant(not that's what we were after), 2) Watch to see that A) she was not tired and in a good mood and 3) Make sure I hadn't done anything wrong to warrant no nookie, although this could be rather emphemeral as to what would disqualify me for nookie that particular month like breathing wrong or pointing out that I had emptyed the dishwasher for the last 6 weeks consecutively or something equally stupid and 4) Make sure the kiddo was asleep and we had headed for bed early. These were the signs that there might be nookie. Of course, I couldn't initiate either.
While this explains my spouse, I'm not sure what can explained the LD males or HD's spouse.
Scott -Who is already tired of work being so doggone busy and is cranky as his last nookie was now 3 weeks ago .
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
You know, WB, the only thing I can think of to do in your situation is to call her on the carpet about the comments. I know this goes against what you are ultimately trying to accomplish though.
I am just an antagonistic person when it comes to that stuff, and would not be able to restrain myself!
To the "You never know.." comment I would be tempted to say, "Well why would you have said it, if not to indicate a desire to have sex? What were you hoping to accomplish by saying that you wanted the kids out of the house?"
The lesson? Well, for starters, though I may claim to be HD here, I'm probably only desiring her maybe 10% - 20% of the time I'm with her. Life gets in the way so much you know. Why should I expect her to desire me at those exact times?
Another thing she told me while we were on the couch: that she likes it in the early morning, when her brain is basically empty (and there is a vicious 4-year-old guarding her chastity). I'd call that a standing invitation!
Can I tell you what an immense break-through this is? Can I underscore enough how HUGE this is for you?
Why? Because you noticed something about YOUR behavior that caught your attention, and you really thought about it, without resentment, or blaming it on your wife. It allowed you to approach your wife and cuddle on the couch with her. Yes, sex would have be preferable, HOWEVER, because you went with the flow, you did get some valuable affection from her, and she was willing to open up to you... to reach out and say, "I'd prefer mornings."
She felt safe saying that to you. I'm not saying she's 'there' yet, but what you worked on, without maybe knowing, is TRUST and COMMUNICATION. Big 'ole ingredients for intimacy (not having trust and communication to establish intimacy is like not having flour and butter for your cookie batter... how is that supposed to work? You get something, but you DON'T get cookies).
This is a big revelation. If you have it in you to adjust to morning sex and you can meet that need of hers, or at least try it.... and she can then feel good about giving you something you need... this will fuel her desire.
I don't want to get too optimistic here, for you still have the 'kids in the bed' hurdle to contend with... but it could be a start.
Remember, empathy and tolerance = patience. If you can be empathetic to her morning preference and tolerant of the kids in the bed, your patience with her will pay off.
At least, this is what we are hoping for...
Anyway... congrats to you, at least in my opinion.
You are onto something there. Before our recent successes, if we ML at all, it would be just after W ovulated, as she got naturally horny then (horny being a relative term). With all six of our kids, I could point to the exact date, time and situation we got pregnant (how sad is that?)...and in each case she was horny and at that fertile point in her cycle. The result is it feels like "all I have to do is look at her and she gets pregnant". The truth of the matter is, that was the only time I could get any. Should make NFP easy anyway...if she's horny, run away!!! :-(
--GGB, who'll not run away when she's horny...hence the soon to be 6 kids.
Had a short "TALK" with my W Sunday morning. This occurred after we had been laying in bed, I touched her breasts, which she allowed -- until I started stroking them. She push my hand down, so I started to kind of rub toward the direction of her crotch, which she also allowed, and, as we were in the spooning position, I let her know that I was aroused. She said, "I just don't know what to do anymore when you get aroused and I don't want to ML. And you ALWAYS get aroused when you touch me...which is why I usually don't let you touch me." She went on to say that, when I get aroused and she says, "no", I am "mean" to her. This meanness, she admitted, can be (and usually is) as subtle as me rolling away from her and quietly sighing. We've had this conversation many times. She told me, predictably, that I have to be comfortable with her saying "no." I told her that I have demonstrated that I am comfortable with this, but that I would probably do a better job if she said "yes" once in a while.
She said, predictably, that she does say "yes" once in a while. I said, predictably, that twice in one year doesn't do it for me. She said that even though I thought I was comfortable with her saying 'no', I wasn't REALLY comfortable with it.
I reminded her that I wasn't going to live in a SSM forever, and she replied with, "If you're going to threaten me, then let's just get a divorce." I said it's not a threat, it's just me telling you what I will or will not tolerate.
You know this conversation folks, as I've reported it many times. She said that she loved me and wanted me to be happy, but that if I just "cooled it" on the sex issue, it would probably happen. I told her, that I had "cooled it," with no change occurring. I asked her if she would actually tell me if she never felt like ML with me again. She said, "I can't imagine feeling that way, but yes, I would tell you." (One rather dim bright spot in the whole conversation).
After about 15 minutes of this (which we should just record and play back every month or so, to save our breath), I just got very upset...said I was done talking about it, and I left the room.
Later in the day, we kind of did our own thing, until we sat down and watched the Kansas Jayhawks prevail over the Kentucky Wildcats (great game!). During the game, she and DD3 sat with me on the couch and I told her that one thing I had really liked about the vacation cabin was that the room was arranged so that we spent a lot of time together on the couch, rather than being in separate chairs, like our house. I suggested a rearrangement of furniture, and we actually did it, and spent part of the evening watching TV together on the couch. I touched her, and yes, she even touched me a bit.
During dinner she said, "You may find another woman who will make love to you, but you will never find one who will put up with your ex-wife, or love your kids like I do." There is some truth to that.
I didn't bring up the once-a-week schedule, or me moving downstairs, and I WANT to bring this up. I'm tempted to do it in writing. I know, wuss's way out. I just get so damned emotional when I try to talk to her about this. It's really one of those role-reversal things, where the man gets all weepy and the woman is rock solid. Not that she doesn't cry or get emotional, just that I can only HOM up to a point, after which the hopelessness just seems to engulf me.
I know this has been a long post, but I was looking for some ideas about whether writing to her about this issue is worthwhile, or if I should just strap on some balls and talk to her about it.
Quote: During dinner she said, "You may find another woman who will make love to you, but you will never find one who will put up with your ex-wife, or love your kids like I do." There is some truth to that.
This makes me mad. IMO this is not a fair way to fight. She is trying to make you feel more emotionally fused to her by making you feel fearful about the alternative to putting up with her LD. This is the equivalent of my H telling me I was fat and saying "Good Luck." when I mentioned that I might think about taking a lover.
I'm sure your ex-wife is a royal pain and I'm sure your kids make themselves rather unlovable on occasion, but you are WRONG to believe that no woman other than your W would be able to tolerate the situation. This is the equivalent of me believing that no man would ever want to have sex with me when I was overweight. Maybe I would have had more difficulty finding a nice man who was attracted to me, but it wouldn't have been impossible. The fact that I had to lose the weight in order to take a strong stand is in some ways more indicative of my wimpyness in terms of self-esteem rather than my strength in terms of will power.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
.
