I hope you understand that there will never be the 'perfect' time to have The Convo. That doesn't mean you 'wade on in' when your wife is feeling down about her dad, but you surely know that something is always going wrong in her life... that's why you aren't having sex.
I'm glad you were able to be empathetic for your wife last night... and if you so choose, you can use THAT as an opener. Or any one of the million of excuses that will come up again and again and again.
Look at it this way, HD, you have a buffet of choice. Who knew?
"buffet of choice." That's weird, I was thinking along these lines this very morning. I thought about the buffet analogy where we HDs see the luscious food, yet are not allowed to eat it. I also thought about the liberty and freedom and yes, that we have so many choices available to us. I can choose to stay and be quiet. I can choose to storm out and leave my W and kids and ex-W to fend for themselves as I hitch hike to Mexico to begin my life as an ex-pat anonymous author. I can choose something between those two extremes. I can choose when and how to tell my W that it's time to fish or cut bait.
Oh, and Jenny, I am not way more scarier in real life than I am on this board. I pretty much lay it all out for all of you to see here, and, because we're all anonymous for the most part, I don't hold back the parts that make me look bad. I learned long ago that if you are seeking help from someone, you need to tell them ALL the relevant details, even if they aren't particularly self-flattering.
And you were right about her need to feel "safe." And yes, you were right that I shouldn't let that dissuade me from making my own point. I feel comfortable with my decision last night to keep my mouth shut and my penis to myself. Given my awareness that she sometimes puts the Mask of her Dad onto my face, I didn't want her to have to endure two smackdowns in one night.
There is always an element of parenting that goes on in marriages. HD's W seems caught in that. She is either the (over) responsible mom/lawyer type or the scared little girl. It's harder to keep an identity of sexual/intimate spouse; like JJ has said, this requires a degree of trust and safety and a willingness to put yourself out there.
HD, your post shows what is underneath your W's exterior, her vulnerability. Somehow her work will be to separate out the marriage hurts from the hurts of the past and "see" you not as a child or parent but as the loving and devoted spouse you are, who is also human and makes mistakes. She doesn't see right now that in being emotionally and physically close with you she will be healing the past.
All this is well and good, but what do you do now? If you push her, you risk being seen as the bad father who is always disapproving. If you don't do anything, you both remain stagnant and no development occurs. I have no idea what you should do, but I have been mulling over Honey's concept of compassionate PM ( PM with a heart)and I like that. One thing that is positive...she seems to be making physical gestures...a small start.
Under that very sharp sense of humor, you are one very astute fellow. You're a lawyer, yet have morals and ethics to boot. You are empathetic, you are compassionate, you love your kids, you love your wife, you're a good looking guy (I think you even once said you love to kiss...??? Was that you?) You are smart as all get out....
The only thing keeping you from the 'Darn Near Perfect Rating' is your ability to stand up for yourself and your own needs... but as I've gotten to know you SO WELL from these boards , I can see that starting to bloom within you, and you are just doing the clever lawyer thing and biding your time (how's that for a run-on sentence?)
So, if you aren't busy in your next life-time, give me a call.
Thanks, IHJ for your analysis...hurt little girl . . . never really thought of her that way, but it ties in with her need to be ultra-competent. And her perception that she's not a very competent wife or lover. And her realization (hopefully) that her lack of competence in that area is because she hasn't tried particularly hard in the last few years to be a giving lover.
And Corri, why wait for our next life? Didn't you know that, on my way to Mexico, I was going to detour to (Michigan, is it?) your place, kidnap you, and make a run for the border?
HD, would your W consent to a scenario where she can experiment with touching you if you agree not to respond? I'm talking about her getting through the obvious anxiety that she experiences when she touches you and you become aroused. The next time she touches you as she has a couple of times recently, what if you said, "I like that, but I understand that when I reach for you and want more, it causes you anxiety. What if you just go on touching me for a while, and I will just lie here and not reach for you." I'm obviously not talking here about a permanent solution, but just a gradual reduction of her aversion. What's that called when you're afraid of spiders and first they show you a picture of a spider, then you look at a spider in the next room... I can't remember... It seems like she's reaching out oh-so-tentatively and when you have the (admittedly normal) response of being aroused, it overwhelms her. (Mr bf seems easily overwhelmed by me <sigh>... I think it may very well be a sign of some kind of abuse... a child being forced to take something in faster than s/he was able to.)
Quote: And Corri, why wait for our next life? Didn't you know that, on my way to Mexico, I was going to detour to (Michigan, is it?) your place, kidnap you, and make a run for the border?
Nope, not in Michigan. But certainly within what was once called the 'Northwest Territory.'
As for the kidnapping thing.... (my best fake southern drawl) "my goodness, I do declare!" Holy cow, I almost had another fantasy!!
I too have a tendancy to be an escalator. That is, at any sign of affection I try to escalate. There is a part of me that understands why this might freak out my W, but then there's that other part .
A nice thing happened today. I dropped off the kids at school and came into the house thinking about all the things I needed to do that day. I realized I wasn't feeling very amorous, and that if I behaved as usual I would pretty much ignore my W or just chit chat. So I decided to turn on some extra amorousness. I went over to the sofa and sat with her and talked with her. We really cuddled, something we rarely do. I asked her to join me in the bed, and I guessed she wouldn't, but I was plenty happy just being there with her. When I did leave an hour later, she gave my a brief but apparently heartfelt kiss.
The lesson? Well, for starters, though I may claim to be HD here, I'm probably only desiring her maybe 10% - 20% of the time I'm with her. Life gets in the way so much you know. Why should I expect her to desire me at those exact times?
Another thing she told me while we were on the couch: that she likes it in the early morning, when her brain is basically empty (and there is a vicious 4-year-old guarding her chastity). I'd call that a standing invitation!
Paul, wishing Ryne Sandberg congratulations on being elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame
Thanks, Lillie. That's a pretty good suggestion. I may try it.
I'm home with W and DD3 today due to an ice storm. She's in the other room on the main computer, and I'm on a dial-up laptop. Pretty scary...so I won't post much here today.
Happy New Year. Just wanted to mention that I feel a lot of empathy for you getting "set up" with the - maybe comment followed by touching on another occasion with no follow through. I am learning that while being touched or hearing sexual innuendo over the course of several different encounters is a "build up" for me - makes me feel more and more iterested they seem to be discrete events to my H. They have no connection. They are mere sound bytes to him, not parts of one tune. Just some thoughts. BTW - I agree wholeheartedly about the anxiety that your W seems to experience. It comes through in many of your posts. My H seems to have a lot of anxieties around sex too. It is hard to empathize with the anxiety while standing firm about your own needs.
, I can see that starting to bloom within you, and you are just doing the clever lawyer thing and biding your time (how's that for a run-on sentence?)
