I suppose I came across as rather harsh. My point, which perhaps I missed a bit, was that for someone who is not meeting any of the items on that list, the list would appear to be a set of impossible demands. I'm sure we'd all like to eventually have a similar list fulfilled. It doesn't happen overnight, and in fact you may never have all the items checked off. It takes a lot of work and compromise, and as part of the compromise you may find that some of the items are asking too much. This is something you absolutely have to take one step at a time, and it will require giving as well as taking. From what CeMar has posted in the past several months, it appears that he is demanding his W change, but he is unwilling to put in the necessary effort himself. Until he has a change in attitude, he's stuck playing Eeyore.
Greeneyedlass asked {{That's interesting...I wonder if your demeanor sends her a mixed message.}}
Greeneyedlass, It hit a cord with me when HP said her H had this silly grin on his face when they talked. In my case I sort of smile because I am uncomfortable that the other person or W will react negatively to what I have to say. I do not want to come across as a mean guy or a know it all. I want to keep the conversation friendly.
It's like when my A male friend walks out of his house in the AM partially dressed and his zipper is down. I smile and say his zipper is down as not to embarrass him or myself. I imagine it is slightly stressfull for him and it is for me.
{{No, I'm not trying to control how you think...but if you can try to see my point of view,}} Greeneyedlass I think I do something like you suggested most of the time. I even ask W to try to see MPV and she usually replys that I am controlling, why have another opinion.
Example, W mostly watches 2 news networks and forms her opinions about Israel and Palestine based on what she sees on those networks. I watch the same networks and other programs that present the news that origionate from the middle eastern countries, Canada, England, Germany and other countries sometimes.
W'comments about the Israel / Palestine clashes, are to say all the Palestine people are to blame for the problems. I say, yes some Palestine people want all of the Israel people out of their per WWI land but some want to co-exist. W's comments usually indicate that there might be a few good willed Palestine people, but by and large most are killers. Sorry for the political bent of this portion of this post, but this is how W sees many things. It's kind of "I see what I saw and my mind is made up." I do get through to her sometimes but it requires a lot of work.
I completely understand what you are saying about having a kind smile on your face...but do you see how doing that may enable her to not take you seriously? I mean if you're smiling (even just slightly) how much could this really be bothering you? (from her perspective I mean.)
I know you don't want her to react negatively towards what you have to say...but the brass tacks of the stituation is that sometimes they are going to...but you persevere anyway with your point.
Cemar: I don't think your list is unreasonable at all.
I do think it is quite a jump for her to make all at once, so you will HAVE to accept that this (fixing an SSM) is a process and not something that your spouse just DOES. If she did, you wouldn't believe it anyway.
Look at it this way: What if your wife had come to you 5 years ago and said, "I want you to be able to bench press 300 lbs or I will not be able to continue in this R. My love is fading fast so do something quickly!" You would have said to her, Honey I love you with all my heart but I can only bench press 150 lbs. It will take time for me to build up to 300...give me six months to a year and let me pursue it at my own pace.
And she came back at you and said, No! I want you to do it next week; if you love me you will.
Blah blah.
Look I won't win any awards for the board's best analogist, but I am trying to think like a man here and I'm not that hot at it, LOL, but there has to be something that will click with you.
This is a process and she will need time to work from point A to point B. During that time, you will feel alternately icked out, disgusted, sad, lonely, hopeful, elated, hopeless, dejected, excited and of course horny. That's all part of it.
You are scared to start this process because it involves you taking her to task and talking in specific terms about your sex life, or lack thereof. You do not want to hurt her and go down that road. You must, if you expect change. YOU are holding the process back because you are not forcing the change. You do not force it because you take the easier path of defeatism and have decided that it is hopeless anyway. It is definitely the easier path, but you already know the destination--the same damn place you are at now.
Why not pick a few things off your list and tell her that you want her to start doing them? Hold hands and give kisses don't seem all that difficult to me. Start small and build from there.
HP
P.S. Sorry to all the fellas on the board who will now pick apart my weightlifting analogy and tell me that 300 lbs is nothing and not that heavy, etc etc.
Quote: P.S. Sorry to all the fellas on the board who will now pick apart my weightlifting analogy and tell me that 300 lbs is nothing and not that heavy, etc etc.
I'd be happy to bench-press 300 lbs. I'm getting there, but not there yet!
Then again, I'd be happy to get kisses and hold hands, too!
Choc., who's REALLY dyin' to try the HORIZONTAL WIFE PRESS sometime soon
Quote: P.S. Sorry to all the fellas on the board who will now pick apart my weightlifting analogy and tell me that 300 lbs is nothing and not that heavy, etc etc.
I'd be happy to bench-press 300 lbs. I'm getting there, but not there yet!
Then again, I'd be happy to get kisses and hold hands, too!
Choc., who's REALLY dyin' to try the HORIZONTAL WIFE PRESS sometime soon
Quote: I do think it is quite a jump for her to make all at once, so you will HAVE to accept that this (fixing an SSM) is a process and not something that your spouse just DOES. If she did, you wouldn't believe it anyway
HP, Thank you for putting into words what I meant by "tall order". It is not unreasonable for Cemar to want any and all of the things on his list. I do think that they will take time to accomplish, much like your wieghtlifting analogy.
Cemar, Do you think you would be happy if your W started doing all the things on your list out of the blue? I know that your initial answer would be a resounding, "YES!!!", but hang with me a second. These are the behaviors of a sexually confident W. Think carefully, Ce, is a sexually confident W what you want? What kind of changes do you think you'd make to have a M with such a gorgeous woman?
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Greeneyedlass wrote {{...but do you see how doing that may enable her to not take you seriously? I mean if you're smiling (even just slightly) how much could this really be bothering you? (from her perspective I mean.)
Greeneyedlass Im 6 foot & 4 inches tall and weigh 260#. I have been told my size is intimidating so I try to offset my "supposed" intimidation size by not making any angry faces when dealing with stressful issues. You know, simle a little to make everyone feel better about what is being discussed.
On a similar point, I know W giggles or laughs when she is almost crying inside. You have seen that too!
I had an acting class in college (1989) and try to use some of the things I learned in the class. It is difficult for a guy as serious as me to act. I do sometimes to the best of my ability. Sometimes I pull it off, other times come across as phoney. It's a two edge soward.
I know it's a common problem, balancing what I say, what I really mean, and how the other person interperatates it all.
With the help I have gotten here on the BB, through advice and reading others post, I have done a lot better and have learned to let some of the chips fall where they may and realized I can only do so much of the R work. The rest is up to her.
Lou, From everything I read you're the real thing and an inspiration to us all. All the best in ths new year! I'm off to the middle east and will tune in on the 25th. Ciao
Quote: Think carefully, Ce, is a sexually confident W what you want? What kind of changes do you think you'd make to have a M with such a gorgeous woman?
This is a good point, CN. The immediate thought I had when I read this was "AH,ha maybe that's why my H started being nicer in reaction to my increased sexual confidence, even though he didn't start being more sexual in response. He knew he had to do something to keep the relationship in balance.". I'm assuming that in a nice way you're asking CeMar "If your W suddenly became chock-full of sexual confidence and drive, why in the hell would she choose to stay married to you? What would you do to keep this woman in your life?". This thought actually makes me feel like I'm on the right track with my own situation because I really am trying to do everything in my marriage that I would do in order to keep a super-sex-confident version of my H content in the relationship (okay,okay I admit that super-sex H might have gotten waffles more often than scrambled eggs for breakfast this week, but that would be the direct result of an early morning sex energy buzz.).
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
