MustangSally. The best advice is to let H work out the debt and let him do most of the work. BTW I earn 22K a year and drive 10 & 15 year old cars and do not owe anyone for anything.
I admire you for not being in debt, I honestly thought that's where we were at the beginning of the year. I want to live my life that way from now on. At least I know I'm not running up CC bills.
Honey, I don't know how to explain it except to say that if I confront him about the money, then he wins. He is very passive aggressive. He is also aware of what a stupid thing he did, whether or not he will ever actually admit it to me.
I will probably, at some point, do exactly what you're saying. But I will most likely wait till he brings it up. The part about the sarcastic comment is really just what I'm trying to keep myself from doing...and I'm not 100% sure I can restrain myself if he starts up with me about money.
Frankly, I want him to pay every dollar of this debt, and I also want him to have some sort of real punishment for his DWI. He needs to learn that you can't live that kind of life without paying.
Another part of me sees him *really trying* to straighten up right now. I don't know if it will last. I'm hopeful. Adding a ton more pressure to the situation is only going to hurt it, I can tell he's fragile.
Still trying to think of goals for NOPkins...I know I want to stay the course on the "high road". I would really like to not let him see me break...every once in awhile he'll make a comment (as a joke) that hits me wrong. I know how he means it, but *I* am fragile now too, so sometimes stuff touches a nerve. I'd like to not tear up when this stuff happens, but at least sometimes when I react, I get a little sex out of it.
My real goal is to have him say to me someday "Thank You for fighting so hard for our marriage". Since I know a little bit about setting goals, I know that's not a real one, but I want to be there someday.
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
MustangSally, I was touched by some of the things in your post. Yes, sometimes a person just wants to shout "How could you be so dumb and spend $33,000 on other women." I understand the feelings. I also wish your H could thank you for standing by him to save the M.
I am not the best person at setting and keeping goals so will just say the smaller the step the better they seem to work.
-------- I would really like to not let him see me break... ----------- It might do some good for your H to see you in pain because of the actions he took. That does not say you have to beat him over the head and point your finger at him saying what a bad boy he was. No, you can say you are worried about how all of this will work out. That way he knows what effects him also effects you.
Work on that goal list. Post a starter list. Others here will help you with it. Use the BB as a sounding board. The list does not have to be perfect.
Quote: Honey, I don't know how to explain it except to say that if I confront him about the money, then he wins. He is very passive aggressive. He is also aware of what a stupid thing he did, whether or not he will ever actually admit it to me.
Isn't this also you being passive aggressive. How does he win, that doesn't make any sense to me on this particular issue. I mean, he DID incur the debt...true not all of it may have been at the strip club, but both of you know that some of it was and that it wouldn't be that high if he hadn't used it there.
GEL...what I'm trying to say is, throughout all this, he pushes me to start fights with him. Then he can say what a big meanie I am. If I confront him with this at the wrong time, I'll get the same result. The same thing with the DWI. It's a good thing I had a *long* wait from when he called me to pick him up, to when I actually saw him. I knew that the wrong way to handle this was to scream at him "what an idiot you are, look what you've done now!"
I would have had a hard time not doing that at first. Finally, about half an hour before they finally released him (5 hours later), I decided to just be concerned for his well being..."are you OK, did you get in an accident too, where's your car?". Threw him for a loop, and in a way, it wasn't really *acting*. And maybe it made him think of the possible results of his actions in a way that screaming "You could have killed yourself or someone else!" wouldn't have. I just knew he didn't need me preaching at him, he knew he screwed up, bigtime.
We talked quite a bit that day, and just about everything I said to him, he tried to turn it around into bitching him out, but I just wouldn't let him. One thing to remember is that *I KNEW* he was with girls from the strip club that night too, just at a "regular club". So I was pretty angry. By the end of all of it, he felt bad for putting me through it. I figure I'll let the legal system punish him.
It all sounds manipulative but it's not, so much, it's just finding a way to not let him manipulate me.
And the same thing about the CC debt. I would guess that close to 20K of it was spent at the club. He is waiting for me to confront him on it...I haven't decided what the best way to do it is, yet, so I'm holding off. The bills aren't going anywhere.
Whether he ever admits it to me, he's beating himself up inside over this. I guess my ideal would be that at some point he opens up to me about his worries. That may never happen. At some point we will discuss it, but I won't start the discussion till it's the ideal time for me.
Does that explain it? I think a lot of this comes from the DivorceBusting books, in a way.
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
-------- I would really like to not let him see me break... ----------- It might do some good for your H to see you in pain because of the actions he took. That does not say you have to beat him over the head and point your finger at him saying what a bad boy he was. No, you can say you are worried about how all of this will work out. That way he knows what effects him also effects you.
OG Lou
Thanks for your support
I guess what I was saying about him not letting him see me break is that he already does. In fact the last time we seriously discussed him moving out, it was because he couldn't stand to see me in so much pain all the time.
He knows what he does hurts me. What I'm trying to quit doing is getting teary and emotional abut stuff that is pretty innocent, that just "hits a nerve" for me. This probably happens at least once a week...or I should say he catches me about once a week. Most of it is harmless stuff that we've joked about for years. An example would be:, he's always kidded around about being allergic to me. It's funny because lots of times when we get close, he started sneezing. We've ruled out any cosmetics or other products I use...even if I use the same stuff he uses, it happens. I kid back that he just sneezes when he's horny, so that anytime he's near me, he sneezes.
Well the other day we were in the same room, he sneezed and joked about it, and out of the blue, I got upset. Don't know where it came from. I don't want him to have to worry about every tiny little thing he says to me breaking me down...it sort of defeats the purpose of one of my goals:
I want to get him to open up and talk to me more. Which I guess somehow needs to be something more like: I want him to realize that I'm available for him to talk to me?
Something like that...I woke up this morning with the beginnings of the flu, so I'm going to bed...
you all take care, and thanks for "listening"
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
So, what would you like to see happen in your marriage?
Where do you want it to go from here?
-NOPkins-
OK...back to this...sort of
I have to say, if I could just get H to say to me that he wants to work on our marriage, it would mean the world to me. I mean, he obviously *is* working on our marriage, we are getting along better, working on stuff around the house...but I want some sort of verbal reassurance. I would ask, in fact I have asked (months ago, probably October/Novemberish) and he said even though we've been getting along better, he was still planning on getting a divorce. So now, even though things seem ok, and the strippers seem out of the picture, I can't handle the pain of asking him. I know my limitations, I can't deal with what he'll most likely say to me.
That's not really a goal, I think I'm pretty powerless in that situation, all I can do is work on myself, I guess.
What I really want to do is just work on communication. I'm not sure how to do this all on my own. I think I am doing mostly all I can. Just sort of be available. I know if I pry too much, it gets me nowhere. I don't judge when I get him to actually talk about anything. I also try not to try to "solve problems". I think I'm sort of like a man in that respect, plus I think I know freakin' everything and tend to ramble on about possible solutions.
I'm up now because I can't sleep..so don't expect the above to make a lot of sense, but it helped me to write it.
I guess if anyone has other suggestions to help me open up the lines of communication? I have pretty much ruled out therapy as an option. There is no way I'm ever getting him to go.
And just a little bit of journaling, for my peace of mind:
H had late meetings tonight at work, and I knew he had meetings, I knew he wasn't lying to me, but still, at about 8 o'clock...it just hit me that he could be at the club again, alot of times he would use these meetings as excuses to sneak out afterwards. It was horrible. It took just about all my strength not to call him. I started crying...and about 15 minutes into my freakout he comes home.
I know this post is rambling and makes no sense, but it made me feel better to type it out...plus I can't sleep and I'm boring myself to sleep...heh
G'night ya'all
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
Ok...so today I'm thinking that all the sex stuff and a lot of the "around the house" problems really deal with a "fear of intimacy" type issue. He really doesn't let me near him in any way.
On the financial front, as I expected, he's trying to push off a lot of the other bills on me. He won't ask me to pay his CC bills, but he's trying to get around it by trying to get money out of me in other ways. Confrontation will most likely occur reasonably soon.
I believe his court date is Monday...can't remember if he actually told me the date, but I know he said it was soon. I know it's Monday (maybe Tuesday) because I'm now such a little snoop.
I don't know if I'm paranoid, but I think there's a chance he went to the club on Friday. I have no proof whatsoever, except he took $200 out of his checking account at an ATM near there. There are like a million other reasons for him to be in that area. When I came home from work Friday (he was off that day) he was doing laundry. So I immediately jump to the conclusion that he's getting "that smell" off his clothes.
I keep telling myself I'm paranoid...he always does his own laundry and I keep telling him if he's going to do that, he should do it Fridays instead of waiting till the weekend when I'm doing laundry.
And he wasn't acting "weird", all the suspicious phone numbers are deleted from his phone. I have no real reason to suspect him. I just wonder if I'm going to always be like this now?
Anyway, back to the intimacy thing....I desperately need some sort of reassurance and I know I'm not going to get it...damn, I could just use a kiss from my husband instead of just sex. I need to be patient, things are going well otherwise and if I start getting crazy/needy I'll screw things up. Plus I'm NOT the crazy/needy type, normally I'm pretty secure and confident but right now, just typing this out, I'm in tears.
I hate that things are actually SO MUCH better but I can't be normal inside
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
MustangSally wrote ---------- I hate that things are actually SO MUCH better but I can't be normal inside ----------- BTDT and still feeling this way myself and I don't have 1/4th the problems you have. Sorry you don't feel more love from your H.
----------- I keep telling myself I'm paranoid ----------- Maybe being burnt before makes you wary. Could you switch from paranoid to cautious?
I see paranoid as H does A and B so that means H is about to do C. Cautious is, H does A and B. Thought process stops to what you see H doing. Don't infer what might happen next. Also don't ignore A and B if A and B are servious violations of your trust.
I can imagine a real hug and loving contact from your H would be very nice about now. Keep posting, you have cyber friends.
Sally wrote: -------------- I'm pretty secure and confident but right now, just typing this out, I'm in tears. --------------
I am sorry sweet lady.
I understand how the lack of intimacy feels. MrsNOP and I played the 'on guard, distance game' for a long time. It is a terrible place to be.
I know you want a simple kiss or show of affection. Do you ever just touch his back with your hand as you walk by? If you lead in a small way, maybe he will reciprocate.
Don't feel bad about snooping. You are protecting you and your children. That is perfectly acceptable behavior. The snooping is only an issue because your relationship is seriously strained by your husband.
In my marriage, I couldn't care less what MrsNOP looks at of mine. She is the same with me. Snooping in a marriage is a non-issue when there is nothing to hide. MrsNOP does make occasional entries in a journal(s). I know she wouldn't mind if I read them, but I leave her to her own thoughts and don't look at them. You can have privacy in a relationship, it is secrets that do the damage.
You will not always be suspicious, but he is going to eventually have to make a serious effort to restore trust to your marriage.
I will be glad to work with you and your relationship whenever you feel that you are strong enough to handle the extra load. In the mean time, continue what your are doing.
I am very proud of you, Sally. I wish your husband could see the side of you that we see here.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
