Quote: H again the other morning reached over for a hug - and I sort of lost it, not really loud, but I did say 'Why is it that you are able to ask for a hug when you want, but ignore me when i say I'm unhappy, or need to talk to you about the kids, or I want a kiss' He just got mad, understandably, and got out of bed.
Just a quick thought. Discount at will.
You didn't do anything wrong. You just can't pretend that all is well in Finland.
I wouldn't get into a tit-for-tat sort of response. Especially since that seems to be something he has done to you in the past.
I think the big picture needs to be the focus. So, when he rolls over for a hug, rather than giving a list of things he has failed to do, I wonder if something like "I am not willing to hug you while the devastation of our marriage is ignored or minimized." That's kind of stilted, but do you see what I mean? Getting caught up in the detail can make it easy to miss the forest for the trees. The problem is the relationship. The list of failings is a result of that relationship.
Quote: ------------ FIL came after me (didn't hit me, but close. I was 3 mos pg w/twins at the time) after I sort of spoke up to him when he started yelling at my girls (then 3 + 1.5yrs) because they weren't eating their dinner ------------
Well, 'round these here parts, you can tell who the loud mouths used to be, just by sitting around the table at a meal. They are the ones missing most of their front teeth when they smile and nod their heads - politely.....
:-)
I don't think it would do for me to be around your hubby or FIL.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
JJ, Lillie, I don't have the support system here I would in the States with family near by, I do have a few friends who know what's going on, BIL has offered help (though I don't know to what extent), I am seeing a C, and have spoken to a lawyer, but yeah, it does sometimes feel like I'm on my own.
And JJ, I've thought the same thing about my MIL - I dont' want to end up like her.
Lillie, I wonder though about being there vs here. I've thought about this a lot lately, whether I'd want to go back at some point, and I have to say, I'm still up in the air. There's lots of reasons for staying here, especially with young kids. Going back at this point would probably be a big culture shock for me as well. There are things I miss, though...
Mrs N. Thanks for the line. I'll have to remember that (in my own words) next time, and I'm pretty sure there will be one.
Had a revelation this morning about anger. I got angry 'cause H convinced me to get up and make him breakfast (after I had just fallen back asleep after getting the girls off. Realized that in reality, I was not angry at H, but at ME for giving in. Made the anger easier to deal with actually, I was pretty easy on myself.
I have to wonder, I feel like I live a double life - Most people who know me would consider me strong, outspoken, opinionated, but I know the 'fraid little girl was there before H came a long - there was a part of me that was very willing to let someone else make all the decisions.
NOP -
It really is nice to know there's a big strong father figure out there looking out for me! (or two - I'm sure my own Dad would be first in line). Actually, FIL has mellowed, and I've even noticed a semblance of respect in his eyes for me. I don't think he knew at all how to deal with an outspoked American woman, but, though we still don't understand each other, after the kids, and after we moved here, and he's seen what I've done with the yard (he grew up on a farm), he does treat me a lot differently.
Well, this morning he didn't even bother with the hugs, just rolled over as I climbed back into bed (ok, he did take the girls to school, I was busy doing laundry, etc) and asked 'would you make me lunch'
I did, and was angry.
So I went back up to bed, and said ' I feel very angry at myself for continuing to do things like this for you. When you are ready to admit your part in ruining this R, I would be more than willing to show you affection, and do things for you. Until then, I can't do it.'
H 'You have no communication skills.' Blah blah blah about how I shouldn't just start out by saying everything is so bad, how can that promote healing, I just talk etc etc. H'I've stopped answering your questions because I know that every question only has one right answer for you, and if I don't give it, I'm in trouble. You always have to be the one who's right.'
M'That's why I've suggested we see a C'
H just kind of sighs and rolls over. And I'm sitting here, madder than h*ll, and knowing that the boys will be up soon and I have to try to function on 5hrs sleep.
No communication skills? How much clearer can you get than saying what you said?
FF - you HAVE to stop sacrificing your integrity for the sake of avoiding conflict. You made him lunch, then got mad at yourself, then told him you were mad, and you had conflict. So what was the purpose in making lunch in the first place?
Going to a C is going to cost him a lot less in $$ than a D. Maybe you should put it to him that way.
FF, it's okay to make him lunch if you want to, even if you're mad at him. Ask yourself if this really impinges on your integrity. If it does, then don't make lunch. If it doesn't, then do make lunch.
It does sound a bit from the snippets that you quote that you aren't really sure your anger is legitimate, so you kind of lop pebbles at him, instead of just letting him get out of bed and find that there is a boulder blocking the doorway.
I guess what I'm getting at is, unless you're trying to get his attention by going on strike, I would suggest you continue to do the normal stuff you do around the house, and if that includes making his meals, then it doesn't have to undermine your resolve.
If, on the other hand, you feel that making his meals really constitutes waiting hand and foot on someone who doesn't give a fig about your needs, then you might just come out and say, "Until I see some kindness and consideration from you, I can't in good conscience, keep performing the thankless task of cooking for you and doing your laundry. You're welcome to eat with me and the kids, but I won't be making separate meals anymore." And then don't say anymore about it; just don't do it.
I know this is incredibly distressing and scary, and frankly, I don't know if I could do what I'm suggesting you should do. I'm not all that good at communicating directly and cleanly in person. If I can write to them, it's much better. Provided they will actually read what I've written.
I'm reminded of a girlfriend of mine who used to get really mad at her mother when my friend was little-- I'm guessing she was around seven or so. She wasn't permitted to talk back to her mom, or even to show that she was hurt or angry. So my friend would go in her mom's closet and bite teeny, tiny holes in her mom's clothing. Just a couple at a time. It drove her mother nuts-- she couldn't figure out if they were moths or what. My friend never confessed, and her mom went to her grave not knowing.
Presumably we're grownups and don't have to be afraid of expressing negative things out loud to our partners, but there are times when I take the teeny holes approach. I get that "gotcha!" internal satisfaction and don't have to take any risk. But nothing changes.
Quote: Presumably we're grownups and don't have to be afraid of expressing negative things out loud to our partners, but there are times when I take the teeny holes approach. I get that "gotcha!" internal satisfaction and don't have to take any risk. But nothing changes.
I bit a teeny tiny hole last night. I went upstairs to bed before my wife. I was in the closet, putting on a tee shirt, when I, uh, flatulated. Boy, was it stinky! I mean, WOW. So later on, my W comes up to bed, and mentions something to me, and as she's talking, she farts, too. "Oh, oops, excuse me," she says. I let out this SBD (silent but deadly for all you greenhorns out there) and she smells it. "Oh my gosh," she says. "I am SO sorry!" She is dying of embarrassment, because, as we all know by know, Ms. H-dog's sh!t doesn't stink, and neither does her gas.
Yeah, I guess I'm struggling with my integrity here. I had made up my mind a while back that I would not make food for H outside of reg. meal times, just 'cause I do end up feeling like a short order cook - not to mention maid (without the costume ) especially when he lies in bed all morning, then comes expecting something to eat, or when we sit down to watch tv at midnight, and he wants me to make something for him.
This has become an ingrained habit over the years, one that I've resented for a long time, but done to keep the peace, so I do think it's about time that I put my foot down on it. (and it sounds really silly as I'm typing this out )
But H is very good at pushing my buttons, and gives me the whole puppy dog 'I don't feel loved' cr*p, and I find myself in a p/a sitch again, and mad at myself. I know I'm entitled to that anger, but it is my own damn fault for going against my integrity (and at the same time, feels ridiculous for making such a big deal over making lunch).
I guess what really gets me is that H can use these tactics succesfully, but doesn't seem to give a damn about my own feelings. I guess there are still feelings there, towards him, and I'm having a hard time accepting that his level of self-absorbance could be so high.
Lillie, I couldn't go so far as to put my foot down on laundry, just 'cause with 4 kids, and a funky drier (and European washers that take an hr on the 'fast' cycle...) if H started doing his own laundry seperately, I'd never get anything done - especially since he would do it 'correctly' thoroughly, meaning tying up the machines forever. So the food may be a little bite, but it is one he will notice.
Personally, I wouldn't focus on not doing the typical things that you do for him. H can then think about how negative you are and that you are a mean person. He will see you as a punishing mother, when the idea is to see you ( and respond to you) as an attractive spouse. If he treats you in a childlike way or with disrepect, then call him on it. Refuse to do that particular activity at that time until he apologizes in some fashion. Don't let your anger at his lack of spousal emotional support come out as a general "protest." He won't get it.
I think you are too much in the "mother" role with him. You both need to carve out more time to relate to each other as spouses. I know you go out to music concerts and have gone for walks and such, but you need to make time on a consistent, regular basis. Let him learn to make plans for you...it can be as simple as pouring you a glass of wine and renting a movie. You need to spell out for him the things you need for him to feel like a "man" to you again( without mentioning he is not manly). You deserve to feel like a woman. I remember asking my H simple things ( ex. " I would love it if you opened the ( car)door for me..oh, that's so nice, smile, kiss). My H chose to walk away from this identity and I needed it back. Figure out the things that work for you; it really is the exciting part.
What I am trying to say is to draw from positivity and things that you want, but be stern about correcting bad behvior on his part. No need to go on strike.
I'm not all that good at communicating directly and cleanly in person. If I can write to them, it's much better. Provided they will actually read what I've written. 
) especially when he lies in bed all morning, then comes expecting something to eat, or when we sit down to watch tv at midnight, and he wants me to make something for him.