I have printed out all the rave notices so I can read them when I have feelings of being a total failure....
I need to have some things pinned up to read first thing in the morning -
Do your best and let go the rest Do not take everything that happened to you today personally Only do things you are proud of - if in doubt it probably isn't right. You are a capable woman Anger and losing your cool don't get you anywhere you want to be Smile!
for a start....
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Isn't it important that H gets his carcenoma seen to (removed) as soon as possible? Doesn't delay increase the risk of something more sinister developing, or is that not the case? If he is talking about going away in mid Feb for six weeks he may not get anything done till April at this rate.
How to get him moving on this without seeming to be a nag?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
H asked me where I was going over New Year, and I told him the location but not who I was stying with. They are friends I have made through my other friend, I have stayed with them twice before the bomb but H has never met them. So then H asked, going skiing? I laughed and said, if only! I have never been skiing in my life.
Do you think H's blowout is to do with my having plans for New Year and him feeling left out? I certainly don't want to push H back into the arms of OW1 by him feeling I am getting on so well with my social life...
How difficult is all this??
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I emailed H a short funny quip and finished with "how's it going?"
Got a reply within the hour, quite quick for him.
It's quite chatty, runs to a few lines.
It is upbeat.
He sent me some photos he took near his house.
He finished with 'love to you and D'.....
Well the only time he has signed off with 'love' was one email when I went to other country at the time of my mother's death, but that was an aberration. Other than that, he has often made it a point to sign off with 'love to D'(but none for me... ) The last time he signed off with 'love H' was back in February.
So, should I keep my expectations at zero, as always.....
Oh, one more thing I remembered from our talk, H said he had always been a coward with women.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: Isn't it important that H gets his carcenoma seen to (removed) as soon as possible? Doesn't delay increase the risk of something more sinister developing, or is that not the case?
Mostly the risk is of local spread, not metastasis - but i agree that April is way too long to wait. Don't know how much you can do, though, since he seems to resent you mothering him - on the other hand, we know he's confused and not too organized in his thinking right now. Perhaps if you said "gee, H, D and I are really concerned that you take good care of yourself, as we need you to be around to be D's dad. I know you've been feeling overwhelmed with things lately - would you like me to take care of making that appointment for you?"
Quote: So then H asked, going skiing? I laughed and said, if only! I have never been skiing in my life.
So - wouldn't this be a good 180 for you - to rent some equipment and go skiing???? I was 35 before I learned, and 46 when I started snowboarding, so it's not too late
Quote: Do you think H's blowout is to do with my having plans for New Year and him feeling left out?
Maybe - maybe not. Who knows. Could also have to do with guilt over Xmas, or just be residual bad mood from his interactions with OW1, or his frustrations with the way he's mucked up his life. Don't waste too much time trying to read his mind.
Just keep your PMA up, get out and try new things, become a more interesting, adventurous person who surprises him at every turn (and yourself!), and get yourself in a more financially independent situation (let's face it, even if he came back tomorrow, you would never want to be financially dependent on him again, would you?). Arrange a babysitting swap with some other parents so you can get out at night sometimes, and take up a new sport or hobby that will help you meet interesting new people.
Boy oh boy do I get the idea. I remember you saying to me that my h seemed so much like your h......you're right. I read about your Christmas and thought to myself "thank goodness I didn't see hide nor hair of my h over the Christmas holiday". The main difference is that my h most probably would have punched me one. You must take care to protect yourself Liv.
Anyway, the other thing I wanted to comment on was you saying why do you bother? Friends tell you to let him go and give up on him. Well, I get that too. Reading your thread is helping me to see why people say that to me. I so want to be back with my h just like you want to be back with yours but why? Then a friend sent me an e mail about love and attachment. I read it....I could see the point....it helped a little.....but I need to mull it over a while. I'm going to copy the mail here for you....it's a personal mail to my friend.....I'll delete his name and i hope he doesn't mind me posting it here.
What's to negotiate? If you have a serious relationship problem, you're obviously not getting what you hoped to get out of being in that relationship and it's not serving you to stay in it unless you just like being the victim.
My bet is that the other party is dealing with you in a way that he or she thinks is okay--part of the unwritten agreement. You see once you've put up with some form of mistreatment without protest, you've allowed that sort of behavior to become the norm. You have an unwritten agreement that how he or she is treating you is okay.
The only solution for that relationship is for you to negotiate a new agreement.
The place of power from which you must negotiate your new agreement is a stance that has you outside the relationship, intending to choose back into it with a new understanding.
If a new agreement cannot be reached, there’s no basis for a continuing relationship. This attitude may seem cold and hard until you stop consider that the real purpose of a relationship is to provide you with the experience of being who you are.
All your relationships serve that purpose—even those that seem to upset you. What I’m saying here is that the job you don’t like serves you by allowing you to be the victim of a boss you don’t like, doing work you don’t like so you can be the lightweight you’ve chosen to be in that relationship. Your way back to power is to give up your role as the victim.
Negotiate out of choice, not attachment, and never out of fear
When I suggest choosing out of a relationship with the intention of choosing back into it under a new agreement, I’m never surprised by the fearful reactions and the looks of disbelief that I would even suggest such a thing.
Let me assure you that the greatest possible relationship you could ever have would be one where you were clearly there in that relationship by choice, not because you were afraid not to be.
When you’re in a relationship only because you’re afraid of what life might be like out of it, you don’t really have a relationship; you have an attachment. If you can’t see yourself outside the relationship choosing back in under new rules, you are hooked.
The basis for your relationship is fear, not love. If you remain in a relationship because you are afraid not to be in it, you are firmly attached. Don’t tell me that’s love, because it isn’t!
*********************************************************** I hope you don't mind me posting that on your thread Liv.
I would imagine that you'd like to read that and think about it for a while. But i would be interested in your comments Liv.
I have not posted before on this thread, but I have to say that mojo's last post is probably the most sensible, realistic words on a R that I have ever come across. I agree totally with those words...so many people stay or go back out of fear of the unknown, which in time rarely ever works, and even if it does, someone is going to be consistently unhappy. This is something that many people need to read and absorb. Smart words indeed.
Mojo - some truth in that article BUT - the reason most of us with children try to stick this through is because we know the greatest good to THEM is if we can salvage the relationship - not as it was, but in a new, healthier form. Ironically, that usually happens AFTER the LBS comes to the conclusion that they will be okay even without the WAS, so I agree that part is important. What I don't agree with is the idea that
Quote: If you have a serious relationship problem, you're obviously not getting what you hoped to get out of being in that relationship and it's not serving you to stay in it
This is the kind of thinking that led most WASs astray. I think, if you're not getting what you hoped to get out of the R, then your vows should lead you to do everything possible to WORK on that R until it does meet both YOUR needs AND your partner's. And yes, we have all seen with DBing that it is possible to do this with only one partner working on the R. And, if the R doesn't work out after all this, then the LBS has the satisfaction of knowing they did their best to fulfill their obligation.
Now, of course, this doesn't mean being a doormat or a victim - those are both really copouts from doing the difficult work of DBing and working on yourself. But it is clear to me that so many of our spouses - LNLs definitely included - are suffering from a sort of sickness, either depression or MLC or both. They are responsible for their actions and choices, surely - BUT - they are not in control of their thought processes much of the time, as depression seriously clouds their thinking.
There is a difference between being a victim or doormat, and having loving compassion for a previously good and loving spouse who is experiencing a serious crisis in their life. If you can reclaim yourself and pass through the crucible without taking the easy ways out of bitterness, you should reach a much better place, with or without your spouse.
Thanks for your comments and I do want feedback on this subject.
Sorry Liv if this is hijacking your thread.
I agree with what you say Ellie....that's the exact reason that we're here isn't it? If we didn't stand by our marriage vows we wouldn't be here discussing what to do next.
But there are two points that I want to make concerning this article. The first one is us being in a destructive relationship.....why would we want our h's back when they have been abusive to us? Of course it's because we belive that the relationship is a good one but we would need to combat the abuse....by that I mean the abuse would have to stop. Also this e mail actually does talk about accepting the abuse or mistreatment in the past means that it's unwritten that that abuse is acceptable to you. I think the article is saying that in order to renegotiate the relationship you need to be outside of that relationship in order to renegotiate it. The only way to negotite is to be in a place where you are comfortable and that is outside the relationship. It's a personal thing really...and I am talking as someone who has been physically abused. I think it would not be safe for me to negotiate in any other way but from outside the relationship.....because negotiating inside the relationship makes me vulnerable to attack.
And yes I have three children Ellie and their welfare is paramount to me. I look at them everyday and see sadness in their eyes. But I also see a happiness that was never there before. My youngest used to wet the bed and that has stopped since her father has left. Yet I still want that man back!
This is MY problem I know but it was Liv who said she could see similarities between her h and mine....and so I wanted to share some thoughts with her. Having said that I wouldn't say that these thoughts applied to her or anyone else. This was an e mail sent directly to me by a friend but I DO think that some or all of it could apply to others.
Mojo - physical abuse is a whole other dimension. In that case, it is in the children's best interest not to have the abuser in the home - they need to grow up knowing that is not acceptable. And if the R with the WAS was always bad, before the bomb, then one needs to figure out what you are trying to save.
I was speaking to the more common sitch here, where the WAS really wasn't a bad person before the crisis that led to the bomb - in those cases, the bad behavior of the WAS is more a temporary aberration from their usual self.
) The last time he signed off with 'love H' was back in February.
I was 35 before I learned, and 46 when I started snowboarding, so it's not too late