I just got a call from H "to discuss vacations plans". Last weekend I sent up a little invitation card with D for H to come and spend Christmas and the day after here with us. I limited it to two days, thinking it would seem like a boundary, it could be interpreted to be "for D's sake", no pressure from me to play happy families if he didn't want to. He accepted.
Then I sent him an email yesterday to ask about arrangements for the rest of the holidays. I thought I might go and stay with friends if D goes to H's over the New Year.
So anyway, H calls this evening. He says, when do you want me to come down? Which day is Christmas? (No Mr Advance Planning here!!)
I said, it is on the Saturday, D finishes school at midday on Thursday, why don't you come down on the Friday?
He said, OK, and when shall I stay till?
I said, well, stay till the Monday or Tuesday....
H says, I am going to leave my computer back home, I don't want to have to think about doing any work for a few days.
I said, well, come and spend a few days here if you would like, so he said, OK, I'll stay till Wednesday or something. I said, fine.
Then he said, well.... and made a sort of sigh. I said, what? He said, I am just shivering, believe it or not.
I said, where are you?
He said, in the house.
Then he said, bye.
Somehow I got the feeling it wasn't just pure cold, but maybe I am assuming again.....
D is due home soon, I will get her to call her Dad, if he needs a bit of cheering up.
I so want to reach out to H, but because I think he still blames me for everything bad in his life, like having to live where he does, he might not take kindly to it, he might feel he is being 'patronised'. Got to tread carefully. Detach, but be kind and loving.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I had mentioned wanting to go away for a few days, so needed to know when D would stay with him. He asked, where was I going, was I going to stay with friends? I said, ya. He said, who? I said, I don't know yet, I haven't made arranegemnts yet! H probed further - are they friends from school (he means kids and parents from D's class, I am friendly with a number of them) and I just said, no, not them! (True)
He also said, that he thought there would be people coming up to stay nearby around New Year, but he didn't seem sure about it. Said he would have to ring around and find out who would be there.
I'll need some coaching for those few days when H comes to stay around Christmas!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Before I knew H would be here for Christmas, I had talked with R about spending Christmas with her and her S16 at her place or mine. We (our families) have shared Christmas whenever I have been here and not away in other country with my family.
So I rang her this morning and invited her over to join us at my place for Christmas lunch. I didn't want her to feel excluded, but suspected she might not find this OK. Indeed, she told me she wouldn't come, and told me her reasons.
Said that she was very angry with H for the way he had treated me, her friend. That she couldn't forgive him. That my trying to reconcile with him makes her lose respect for me.
I pointed out that all relationships can go through very trying times - relationships with our spouses, parents, children, siblings, friends etc. She herself had a VERY hard time with her mother, and one of her brothers is completely estranged from her and never wants to meet her. This is very hurtful for her. But do we not all yearn to make things right with them even after bad things have happened?
I think I might have given the impression that I want H back only for D's sake. I had said it would be nice for D to have both her parents together over Christmas.
I tried to explain that I was holding out for reconciliation, not merely 'taking him back' as if nothing had happened. I'm not THAT desperate. I am looking for a HEALING of our marriage.
Even my sister, who is a church going and practising Christian, feels the same way as my friend. I have tried to use the word HEALING with her too, as she attends a Christain Science church which has an emphasis on healing. Sister says, sometimes we should just learn to let go and not insist on what WE want. I am just wondering how she knows what God wants for me...
When I told sister in other country over the phone that H was coming over for Christmas, she said, I KNEW it, only the other day someone was telling me that I bet Livnlearn takes food over for her H.
Anyway, I told R I respected her reason, but what would happen were H and I to reconcile? She said she would only see me without H present. That maybe five years down the line she would feel differently. She said that she was friends with ME, but that she had lost all respect for H.
If H ever does come back, he is going to have to do an awful lot of bridge building. I don't honestly know if he could face that and do it. His MO so far has been large doses of arrogance. Even his email last week was full of self justification, telling me that he didn't feel me to be his equal becasue I wasn't. That he should have been HARDER on me.
I pinpointed one reason I was so blue last weekend, it was the thought that only three years ago, I felt like piggy in the middle between the demands of my aged mother and my H. I tried to juggle my duty to both of them, with my D's needs also to think about. Here I am now, with no mother and a H who doesn't want to live with me. I have seen this pattern with so many on this board, women who have to deal with sick, frail or dying parents, or difficult children, who then turn around later to find their spouse gone too. So much for support and being there for better or worse.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Well, LNL, friends and family can talk big because they feel protective of you - but if you and H truly reconciled, and they saw him doing the right things and you happy, most of them would come around. Geez, look how many families accept the OW???
In my case, my family never even knew what was going on, but H had told everyone it seems that he was leaving, and then had to tell everyone that he was back in love with his wife. He was so happy at being back that he didn't really seem to have a problem with this.
Ah, honey, same old same old from the friends and family. I heard it, too. You do what's right for you.
In all honesty, I think you are stronger for standing for your M. You took the hard road. They can only give those opinions because they aren't living your life.
So what if you didn't turn bitter, mean, and spiteful? Isn't that a good thing?
H rang me this morning, to tell me he was coming down to the city right then, he was going to pay some tax etc... Then said, I'll see you tomorrow, I'm taking D out from school for lunch, you can come too if you want... Anyway, I will get in touch again later today or tomorrow morning. I said, OK. It is not clear to me why he called just then, there is nothing he could not have told me this evening or even tomorrow. Did he just want to let me know he was in town but not staying with me, or what?
H is staying the night with OW 1. (An assumption, but I'm willing to stake a lot of money on it!!!)
Today I had a lunch date with my friend R, at 'our' (H's and mine) former haunt. I was thinkng that H may turn up to eat there as well with his 'friend' OW 1 in tow. But I thought, I don't care, they can sit right at the next table if they want, I have NOT done anything wrong, if this town isn't big enough for the two of us, then I ain't the one moving or hiding.
About tomorrow, I am actually very busy with a deadline coming up, it will be the first clear day this week to get on with the work for it, I am thinking of telling H to carry on without me, I really could do with lots of uninterrupted time to work. I hope he doesn't get into rant mode over it.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
D hurt herself yesterday evening, so may or may not go to school this morning, we are waiting to see how she feels after getting ready. And there I was thinking I would have an uninterrupted day to work in!
I guess I need to deal with H in a kindly way, rather than in a brushing off kind of way. Maybe suggest he come here and make the lunch for us if he wants! (He had volunteered last time he was here.) He will get to see D, not spend money, and I can get on with my work for the most part. He still hasn't called...
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: I guess I need to deal with H in a kindly way, rather than in a brushing off kind of way. Maybe suggest he come here and make the lunch for us if he wants!
Since I didn't hear from H early this morning, I went ahead and phoned him to tell him about D being home and suggested he might want to come around at lunch time and prepare his signature (and almost only!) dish here, and see D, which he said OK to.
He arrived and got on with the cooking. I kept on at the computer. We had lunch. H was a little curt a couple of times, and had to dicipline D a couple of times, while I just sat back and watched. Ha ha, no more Livnlearn blowing a fuse over D, and H telling ME to keep it down!
Later D was watching a video and H was in the office with me. We were talking about what we owed each other - I bought the expensive Christmas gift for D which we agreed to go halves over, and he just paid a tax. I was jokingly knitpicking over the amount and H had a look of consternation on his face, and without thinking I just reached up and stroked his face briefly.
He looked so tired, and he told me he really needed a holiday. Said he intended to come down over Christams and not do any work at all (he is a freelance worker who gets work over the internet, and it arrives at all times of the day and over the holidays too!) I just nodded in agreement.
Then he was talkng about his personal work and saying that he had done hardly anything over the last two years. Then he asked rhetorically, "Livnlearn, why am I so lazy?"
This may not sound like much, but it is significant, because first, he called me by my name, and secondly he seemed to be taking some responsibility for himself, I wasn't the cause of ALL his woes and failures. I just kind of raised my eyebrows at him quizzically.
He let out that he had taken care of getting some kind of present(s) for me already. Wow, he hardly managed that when we were together!!!! I'll have to get my skates on and get him something nice too! And something from D to him, so he feels the warm glow of his family around him. I'll have to get cracking over making those Christmas puddings too! I will also clear away the stuff from his side of the office here at home, so he feels like he has some space to put his laptop when he comes down. He says he will bring it to keep in touch with his emails and stuff.
I didn't want to nag but I did want to know if he had made the appointment for his skin surgery yet, so I just asked him what date he had got, and as I thought, he hadn't done anything about it yet. He said, oh yes, I'll go make the appointment this afternoon.
He asked D a number of times for a hug, and she either was too interested in her video or said she couldn't because of her injury... I could see he was desperate, and I almost offered to be a stand in, but thought it might missfire, so kept my mouth shut and my hands to myself.
So he left eventually, after giving me a kiss on the cheek, again nearer the lips than the cheek proper. Small temperature check!
What do people think?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I can't remember, do you think he's capable of being receptive to the idea that he has depression? Because one way to approach it might be to say "H, I don't think you're lazy. Sometimes people who are depressed have a lot of trouble with motivation and concentration. Do you think that could be part of the problem?"
I do agree, it is a gpood sign when they start to take a look at themselves, instead of blaming everything on outside circumstances.
You do what's right for you. 
I'll have to get my skates on and get him something nice too! And something from D to him, so he feels the warm glow of his family around him. I'll have to get cracking over making those Christmas puddings too! I will also clear away the stuff from his side of the office here at home, so he feels like he has some space to put his laptop when he comes down. He says he will bring it to keep in touch with his emails and stuff.