Quote: Your question "why can't I have a normal husband?" prompted this. I've really been thinking about this thread recently. What really makes these people different from us? (Actually there is one guy on there who had an SSM.) "Normal" couples have issues, conflicts, power struggles. And from these posts, it's clear that they have dry spells, too. Is the difference that they KNOW the dry spell will not be permanent? Is the difference that their power struggles and hurts are not worked out in the bedroom? That they don't take the lack of sex personally?> That their drive levels are more compatible that in our R's?
Obviously, I have been thinking along these lines myself as reflected by my "normal" husband self-chat. I don't know the answer. I guess I believe that the disparity in our drives is a fact that transcends our relationship. I can't imagine myself becoming the LD spouse in a relationship except in a marginal sort of way and I can't imagine my H being the HD spouse in a relationship except in the same sort of marginal way. The fact of the matter is I want sex at least every 3 days and my H only seems to physically crave it about every 2 to 3 weeks in order to be aroused much more frequently than that he needs high level stimuli such as porn or manual stimulation OR he needs the psychological stimulation of being in an emotionally exciting relationship or novel sexual situation.
This basic physiological/temperamental disparity led to a lot of other problems in our relationship that would have been unnecessary if we had been more differentiated and mature. There is no reason that I should have suffered low self-esteem or felt emotionally rejected by my H's LD, if I could have accepted it for what it was.
Perhaps my H and I are equally "abnormal" in our drives. Maybe he is in the bottom 10% of men in terms of drive and maybe I'm in the top 10% of women. Theoretically, this leaves us in a better situation than a couple in which the woman is in the bottom 10% of women in drive and the man is in the top 10% of men, because my drive is maybe only 6x more than his on average rather than 30x more. The thing that is frustrating is that it would be pretty easy for either of us to find partners with whom we would be compatible in terms of drive since our respective drives are more in alignment with those of the opposite sex on average. Therefore, when I pine for a "normal" husband, I am really just pining for a husband with an average male sex drive since this would be more in line with my high female drive. Why does the fact that I am 5'10" have to be magnified by the fact that my H is 5'3" when I could easily find a sexual partner who was 6' tall and the average guy is 5'9"? It's not fair! Waaaah! Why does my H have to suffer from bruised male ego just because I'm 5'10" when he's really only an inch shorter than the average woman and could be looked up to by a 4'9" wife? Waaah for him too!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I have Tried that approach. For me it fell flat on its face. My W didn't even blink. Pretty much she just groaned and rolled over and went to sleep even though the light was still on.
Do you realize how crude that sounded? You litereally illicited a disgusted look on my face while I sat here and read that and I'm a woman who does love sex.
I still maintain your attitude comes across to your wife. To ANY woman your attitude would be a HUGE turnoff.
I'm not saying she hasn't done things that warrant these feelings. Heck, we've all experienced them...and still do, but you've got to get this in check or you will not see any changes in her.
I don't say that to be mean or hurtful at all...it's just true.
Quote: By the way, if my W started fondling herself while sitting next to me, it would get my undivided attention, Koppel be damned. (just reading that got my, ahem, attention).
Since I have to maintain my reputation as the bad girl on the board, I have to admit that sometimes (frequently) the reason I like to post the tales of my failed initiation attempts is I crave the confirmation that my attempt would "work" on a "normal" man. It actually helps my marriage in a wierd way because it helps me feel like I'm not losing my grip on sexual reality while coping with my LDH. When he tells me that it is unfair for me to expect him to become aroused just because I'm fondling myself, I have to be able to remind myself that in the world outside my relationship women fondling their breasts is "good" not "bad". I need someone to back me up when I observe that the Emperor has no clothes. So here is a question for the HD guys on the board. Can you imagine a situation in which your emotional state would be such that an attractive woman fondling her breasts in front of you would not cause you to become aroused? How angry at the woman, depressed with the world etc. would you have to be for this to be so?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Can you imagine a situation in which your emotional state would be such that an attractive woman fondling her breasts in front of you would not cause you to become aroused? How angry at the woman, depressed with the world etc. would you have to be for this to be so?
Well I remember once when I got W up in the middle of the night and told her to take me to the hospital. I really can't remember the details too well, but I had the same kind of pneumonia that killed Jim Henson (the Muppet guy). According to the doctor, I probably wouldn't have made it another 24 hours if I hadn't come to the hospital. I don't think that any amount of fondling by an attractive W would have caused even a flicker - even if she was fondling me. But that's the only time I can think of right off the top of my head. I suppose that there is some level of anger or depression that could put a damper on it, but it would have to be pretty serious.
Quote: Can you imagine a situation in which your emotional state would be such that an attractive woman fondling her breasts in front of you would not cause you to become aroused? How angry at the woman, depressed with the world etc. would you have to be for this to be so?
I would have to be VERY ill. Even anger doesn't kill it for me... although pity does.
I recall that, at the end of my marriage to XW, she pulled something like this after we hadn't had S for about two months. At first, I was aroused, and then I converted my thoughts to pity for her, because I saw what she was doing to herself was just a last ditch attempt on her part to see if I was interested in her, which I wasn't. I had lost all respect for her, and my attraction for her went with it.
But this is not the same situation as yours. You two have a reasonably good relationship, without the END coming up like a roaring train.
I'm pretty disappointed with my W today, but if she pulled this tonight, I'd love it!
It was sarcasam. It was crude, but apparently only when a MAN does this. I was just trying to point this out. As a man and being VISUAL, I would LOVE my with to do anything to please my eyes, and this includes MB, fondling, whatever in front of me. But if I do anything sexual in a similar fashion, it would be considered GROSS and DISGUSTING by a women. Apparently the male fantasies are VERY different from a womens fantasies.
P.S. I have a Christian Web site that actually has suggestions for HD women that need to "encourage" their LD men, and you would be surprised, the suggestions they give to women are VERY visual in nature and very graphic and might even be disgusting to some. The things that are suggested are things that HD men would KILL for, and they definitely are BOLD actions. Unfortunately, NONE of these type actions work with LD females, they want NOTHING related to sex. They would be disgusted by BOLD actions.
Ok, glad to hear that was sarcasim...one of the downsides of the net is that doesn't always translate.
One of the things I'm battling with is that my H isn't what I'd coin a "typical man"...porn doesn't do it for him. But I am learning what does...and as I'm a (believe it or not) fairly shy woman myself, I'm having to work up to doing anything demonstrative to see if he'd like it.
I know how he likes me to dress (which is provocative) so I do know he has visual stimulus to an extent...it's just discovering to what extent...and that's one of the processes I'm currently working on. It's a bit on the back burner right now though since we are concentrating on the communication a bit more right now.
Quote: Can you imagine a situation in which your emotional state would be such that an attractive woman fondling her breasts in front of you would not cause you to become aroused?
I can think of no reason. The only time in my life I have ever not had a sex drive is when I was praying to the porcelein god. Short of that, anytime a stiff breeze blows, I am aroused. A woman touching herself, that is one of my fantasies!
You uncovered a big problem that us HD's have, how can we maintain our sexuality when our spouses are basically not helping. MB is not enough. It is like our spouses want us to hide our sexuality in a closet and never bring it out. But sexuality is a part of our normal day to day lives. What outlets are there for this short of adultry! How can we maintain our sexuality with out cheating? It really is a tough thing to figure out.
Perhaps there is a double standard at play, but if so I think it is a subtle one. A guy whipping it out and mbing just isn't the sexual equivalent of a woman fondling her breasts. I think the equivalent would be more along the lines of a guy making it obvious that he was erect in a more subtle fashion. Though I might be wrong. It is generally believed that men are more "object oriented" in their arousal and women are more situationally or emotionally oriented. I would bet that most HD women are pretty "object oriented" and would say that just the thought of an erection straining against a tight pair of Levis would turn them on with no context needed.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
