Nopkins - when you reached the end of your rope did you let go or did you tie a knot and hang on? What I mean is. Did you mentally let go and take advantage of the seesaw effect or did you really dig in to your marriage as a project? I find myself alternating between those approaches and I can't always figure out what causes the progress or the regressions --------------
I dug in when I realized that there was nothing left to hang on to. The marriage was, in its then current form, dead.
Ultimately, that basic change in attitude is what allowed me to begin to see my very own contribution to the demise of the marriage.
Facing the truth that WE were in trouble, is what motivated both of us to work toward repair.
This is why the onset of recovery can occur only when BOTH SPOUSES realize that there is a problem. That requires communication. As we have all discovered, communication is the most difficult aspect of any relationship.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thanks I am trying to own my part. My H seems only to regret his half of the equation and has great difficulty with seeing a solution. See my thread - Christmas doesn't come in a box.
Hairdog - I hear ya on the flannel nightie. Maybe you can get her a thong for underneath. My H would buy something like that for me rather than acknowledge that I would like the Victoria's Secret.
Jenny - sorry for the hijack. This thread has been most illuminating today. Karen
I am NOT finger pointing, or blaming. I am merely pointing out that there is an added dimension to a SSM when the wife is HD. Because we, as women, are brought up to believe one thing and then that turns out to be untrue in our personal relationship. I cannot emphasize enough how much of a mindf*ck this is. This element is not present in an SSM where the male is the HD partner.
So in that sense it most certainly IS a special circumstance.
Not that it makes any difference in the long run, or in how you go about solving the problem, just that it takes a whole other set of mental attributes to deal with this other dimension.
I completely understand what you are saying...and I agree with you. Society does teach us as we grow that men think about sex all the time so when we marry and find our H doesn't fit this "norm" it's very disturbing and confusing.
Not that it wouldn't be just as disturbing and confusing to our H's that all of the sudden someone is pointing out to them that they aren't the sexual animals men are portrayed as being.
I mean...as we grow up we don't generally hear about men complaining they have a headache...it's always the woman who puts of sex with this excuse. So it's almost as if in many ways it's an expected thing that women would be the gender that would turn away from sex (not that I could ever understand it myself).
I have absolutely no doubt though that the HDH has just as tough a road to travel towards solution...it's all a matter of getting the LD partner (regardless of gender) to understand that the lack of sex/intimacy in the R is a real issue that threatens the M if not addressed.
You know...I remember being married to my ex and thinking "is all you think about sex?!"...ok to be honest with you..."sex and beer?" Now I know there have been times my H has thought pretty much the same thing.
No matter which end you are on and which gender you are...it's frustrating to the point of wanting to pull your hair out while listening to the "slit your wrist blues"!
Quote: I am merely pointing out that there is an added dimension to a SSM when the wife is HD.
Because we, as women, are brought up to believe one thing and then that turns out to be untrue in our personal relationship. I cannot emphasize enough how much of a mindf*ck this is. This element is not present in an SSM where the male is the HD partner.
You haven't talked to my H, then. He has a book of 'should be's' about as big as yours.
Quote: So in that sense it most certainly IS a special circumstance. Not that it makes any difference in the long run, or in how you go about solving the problem, just that it takes a whole other set of mental attributes to deal with this other dimension.
I don't know about this. I think all you are confronting here is an illusion, nothing more. I was brought up to believe I needed to look like the women in the Victoria Secret ads... that that was what a woman was supposed to look like, dress like, act like, be like... and that I should always, always, always want SEX... because that's the American myth, right? Can you imagine the mental agony I endured because I 'wasn't' all that? Talk about your 'different set of mental attributes.'
Now... I know you are just blowing off your frustration, but I do think there is a grain of truth in your rantings. You're pissed because your H doesn't fit the great American myth, or model of what a red-blooded American male is supposed to be. 'Cause if he were, then there'd be no problem, right?
It isn't the issue. I think you and your H are in the middle of a full-blown power play... on a collosal passive scale. It isn't a physical struggle, but mental warfare the two of you are engaged in...
... cogs are still turning, and I have to take my kid to trombone lessons. More later.
Seriously, I am way past this particular problem being that much of a factor in my daily life..I was just mentioning it as a unique facet of the HDW situation. Not only do we have to deal with the usual SSM stuff, but we also have to retrain ourselves to stop thinking of all men as horndogs, etc. This is very very difficult to do. It is like if I told you that "mother" doesn't always mean mother. Sure we all know of horrible mothers, but still our basic knowledge and experience of the word "mother" remains unchanged. I feel, as an HDW, like I have had to rewrite what it means to be a man and husband--based on my reality with my H--and am having to consciously continue to do so. It would be like you having to catch yourself every time you think of mothering and attaching a different meaning to it. Or something like that, lol. I suck at analogies, so I will stop.
Now on to you HDH's. Your situation sucks because, as Lillie pointed out, your spouses have "permission" to act the way they do. I can't imagine how hard that would be to work around. At least my H is motivated by the fact that his internal set of values tells him that he is being a p***y and to shape up.
No, I think HP is right. Our cultural stereotype is that men are always horny (just ask CeMar). There is no such stereotype for women. If anything, the stereotype is just the opposite - she's put off by men only wanting one thing. She's supposed to resist the man's advances - otherwise she's easy, a slut, or whatever.
Sure, this doesn't apply within a M, or at least it shouldn't. But the fact remains that men are always assumed to be horny, but there's no such assumption applied to women.
Corri, I get what you're saying but this is not just all in my head; it's basic biology also.
Men have 20-40 times more testosterone than women. My H had normal readings of testosterone, last time we checked which was 6 yrs ago. So what does this mean? Why is my actual drive and desire for sex higher than his? I can tell you that I do not have one single feeling that he is holding out on me, or doing this to hurt me. His body is just not calling out for sex with the same strength or frequency that mine does. I believe him when he says this, Corri. I have no reason to believe otherwise, because the rest of his behavior backs this up lock, stock and barrel.
So do you see the added dimension I am talking about? Biologically speaking, he should be hornier than me. He isn't.
That has been a mental hurdle for me to get over. I had to lose the notion that I had done something to cause him to turn off of ME, cause he was a man and would biologically seek release, at least theoretically. As well as a whole other host of "shoulda's". But these shoulda's do have some basis in biology so it is extra hard to ditch them and understand that he is not withholding; he just really doesn't need it.
In fact, I will say this: I still don't understand how that happens, that a man who has a normal level of T can still be LD, but I will say that I accept that he is telling me the truth. I wish I could say I accept it, wholly and without question.
Let me sum up my previous post to you and see if this is more clear.
It is not your husband's fault that you see him through your set of traditional filters.
That is why you must stop holding him accountable for your notions.
That is why you must BOTH work together on a solution to a marital problem.
How's that?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
