Onward and Upward - Kicking and Screaming

[sage]

Hi there,

Hmmm...I have to say that I found the transcript of the weekend exchange quite positive AND full of information from SO about "what works" and "what doesn't" for him.

We started really getting heated in our discussion, and S. pointed out that it showed how little trust and understanding we had for each other, that I was immediately assuming bad intentions [an oldie but a goodie] and how he was immediately getting defensive and hostile.

So, this is a great insight from him, no? Seems like he's pretty clear on wanting more "positive ASSumptions" from you -- the benefit of the doubt, etc? This was very much an issue for me and H for a long time...he would say to me "why do you want to be married to someone who you ASSume negative things about all the time?" Have to say that he was onto something.

It's bigtime important for my h to feel "trusted" to do the right thing and that includes the tacit "doing the right thing". Sounds like SO may share that?

So I suggested we break and not talk to each other for 15 minutes, and he agreed and we both did calming things – I picked up my book and he turned on his music while he straightened his room a bit. About 25 minutes later he made his way back into the living room, sat down, and started doing something when I started a conversation about the movies (at the noir festival) I’d seen that day (alone, not with MF). We immediately got into a spirited discussion about the films, and were having a great time. After about 30 minutes I said I’d like to go to bed (NOT continuing the conv we’d started fighting about, which was a 180 for me). He was very affectionate and close in bed, and asked the tried-and-true “What are you thinking?”

GREAT job on deescalating the sitch! WOW! Awesome 180 too!

Well, he wasn’t expecting to hear what I said, which was, “I was wondering if you loved me, and I’m trying to figure out how to ask you.” Well, what I heard/interpreted (which has since been modified) was [BIG LONG pause, then hesitantly] “I do love you.”

JinB: Why the long pause?
S.: [BIG LONG pause] Well, I do love you, like when I feel close, like I do right now.
JinB: Are you saying that sometimes you’re not sure?
S.: [BIG LONG pause] Sometimes, like when we’re fighting, I don’t know. But when we’re close, like after we have fun together, or like now when we talked about the movies, and I’m feeling really close to you, I do love you.

OK...I guess I won't whack you TOO hard for you asking for reassurance in that way. Haven't you had this conversation with SO before? I swear I've read something similar on your thread in the past...with a similar (loaded, unsatisfactory, too open to interpretation, etc) response. My h runs screaming from the hills during this kind of "no answer could possibly be good enough" interaction...I'm surprised SO reacted as "well" as he did.

AND...his reaction was loaded with info...I feel GOOD and LOVING when we spend GOOD and POSITIVE time together. I DO NOT feel GOOD AND LOVING when we are FIGHTING. (so, either there's something about fighting in general OR the manner in which you fight that is NOT successful generating loving feelings within him.)

Here I can’t remember what was said, if anything, but after a while I said “S., I can’t fight for maybe. I won’t. It’s what I was doing before [before we split up], and I can’t do that to myself again. I won’t do it.”

Did he say maybe? I thought he said something different than that...sometimes isn't maybe to me...and what he seemed to tell you gives you a roadmap for increasing sometimes to "more", right?

Things brightened considerably after that, and we had a great time, opened a bottle of wine, and ate stretched across the bed having a nice, fun, light conv., laughing at some music that was on, and generally laughing and making jokes. The pizza was delicious, and he kept saying so and validating my great idea and how fun it was. Then…

I pulled out the Scrabble game I’d smuggled in, and we played for FOUR hours. It was so much fun, and although I beat him, he had a great time fighting. When we were done and it was time to go to bed, he was all over me, hugging, kissing, smiling, etc. [Note to self: HELLO?! QT is a serious LL for him, even if I keep insisting that WOA is his primary!) He couldn’t stop talking about how fun it was, and when was the rematch?

GOOD STUFF! Sounds like you exactly captured what he articulated the night before!

When we got into bed, I was feeling weird about the conv we’d had the night before, and do I just act as if, or do I bring it up… I was feeling physically protective of myself, and I finally said very gently, “I’m feeling a little self-protective tonight,” and he said “I can feel that,” and I said “The conversation we had last night is still very much on my mind,” and he said “That’s understandable,” and we lay there for a while, him holding me the whole time, and he kissed me and said “I love you, Jennifer,” and I squeezed him, and lay there not knowing what to say, because how do you take that after what he said? On again off again? So I said, very gently, “I don’t know how to take that, after what you said last night.” He said he’d felt put on the spot when I asked him if he loved me, and was trying to be really careful about what he said, as the subject is so sensitive. Okaaaaay, isn’t that a little weird? I mean, if he loves me he loves me and what’s so sensitive about saying “Yes, I love you,” and leaving it at that? But I didn’t say any of that, just decided to let it go and see what happened over the next few days.

Hmmm...ok...do YOU leave it "at that"? It seems like you don't so why are we expecting him to? I think he was pretty dead on and honest with his response to you...he felt on the spot, walking through some tricky stuff, and he was trying to be really clear (but sensitive) about how he feels without getting "trapped". What do you think would happen if you stopped querying him on his feelings for you and let him take the lead on that?

So, we spent the next 12 hours ML and then he asked me to stay the afternoon (after he got out of bed around 1 to make me blueberry pancakes) to help work on the fence in his backyard, which is a project we’ve been cutting wood in Vermont for. He flirted nonstop with me, calling me his “apprentice,” and it was really nice. He was very affectionate afterward, too, and thanked me several times for helping and saying it was fun to work outside together (something that we love in Vermont).

What a great afternoon! What if each one of the above positives spelled out "ILY" to you instead of the onthespot questions?

Just my two cents,
Sage