I am just catching up on your thread. I have to tell you that I understand what you are feeling. When my H went to a conference he had PA and came back a completely different person. It was the only time in 15 years that had happened. H had to much to drink... young female enlisted soldier made herself very available and it happened. H was so different because he couldn't live with the fact that he had done it. It kind of sounds like your H is the same way.
One of the things we have been working on that seems to help with separation anxiety is that we make leaving and returning a good thing. Sends flowers while gone, leaves a note on my pillow that I didn't now about. We plan a special dinner or something that we are going to do together the whole time he is gone. It sounds corny but it helps us.
I started to reply last night...got booted...decided it was a sign that I should go workout. (The high-speed connection here is iffy...kept kicking me out of VPN when I had work I really couldn't have interrupted.)
Anyway... I've been moody this whole week. Not as bad as when H went to California back in November, though--I was near hysterics then. Although I've been picking my brain to remember what worked when we were seperated. That's helped some.
We've talked at least a couple of hours every day. Which is nice. I've gotten some unprompted "I miss you" type stuff, but he seems kind of funny about anything from me, so I've tried to stay backed off.
Although H is still coming up to see me this weekend. And a day early, actually. BIL2 had invited him to go to a moto-cross thingy on Saturday. I told H yesterday that he should go, when he was waffling between what he wanted to do. Said I'm coming home on Tuesday, and it's not that long.
Well, today, he said he is definately coming to see me. Isn't it funny how that works? (And I really was okay with him not coming up, I have plans with a really good friend of mine for the weekend.)
My whole deal with us being apart is that H came back from a vacation (with his mom, actually) really funny. I mean, alien behavior from the get-go. Granted, his two brothers were shipped off to Kuwait during the week he was gone. (They are now home safe and sound. )
I've learned that H often seems distant and less affectionate when he stressed. Guess that makes sense. In the past, he was always up and down...even if he doesn't remember. I never thought much of it, until he left. Ah, well.
Something interesting... H mentioned wanting to hang out with [female name], but wasn't sure if it would look odd. I told him I didn't think she would care, since she's hung out with both BIL2 and I before. He said no, he was talking about our neighbor, not the FF. (They have the same name.) He said it would look bad, if he invited her over the week I'm out of town, it's just that he was lonely. (We have talked about having female neighbor up sometime to watch a movie or something.) This completely surprised me...he's been so "I can hang out with who I want" lately, I was really impressed.
H also mentioned the other day that he was trying to pay attention to what things annoyed me, and to change those things... (!!) Yay for H! I try to do the same, but sometimes it can be hard.
We've also agreed we don't have much money to spend, and we're just going to send each other free ecards for Valentine's Day. lol Never mind I'm stuck out of town for the holiday, anyway.
So...tonight is the first night that I have not gotten upset since I left for Chicago. Actually, I am feeling very good. (And no, nothing special for Valentine's Day...lol)
We wound up having a ton of R talks over the weekend. Yuck. H caught me on Friday while I was driving out to see my friend, and I was a wreck. I probably should not have answered the phone. But he made me talk to him... He wound up backing out of coming to see me over the weekend. I was disappointed, and actually mad for awhile, but I calmed down.
Friday evening, I was hanging out with my friend at the bar she works at. (She does the sound mixing for the lives bands.) We were both tired enough to be almost falling asleep. lol Although I had the worst of my flashbacks while I was there. There was this female bartender there...and that was enough to send me back into thinking of xow. Yuck yuck yuck yuck. (She was a bartender.) The flashbacks were really bad...I was actually shaking. I wound up trying to talk more with my friend, to get my mind off of stuff...
Saturday I didn't talk to H much. He apologized for not driving up, but said he had been too tired. I was calmed down, and okay with it, then. Besides, I was having fun the my FF and her BF. We went to another bar to watch his band play--he was nice enough to buy me some drinks. Yes, I got good and drunk. I don't do it much, and maybe this sounds bad, but when I do, it is such a tension reliever for me.
While I'm there, my phone rings. I see part of the number off of the caller ID, and think it's H. So I go into the restroom and answer it. It's some woman, who keep saying "Hey, it's me, quit fooling around!" And I have no idea who it is. lol I have no idea why I kept talking to her...probably because I was drunk. She finally mentioned H's name--and it's distinctive, so no mistaking it. I told her that this was his wife--probably said it much more harshly than I meant. lol She apologized, said they worked together, and needed to get a hold of him. She didn't sound weird or anything, so no red flags, and I know H does work with two women bartenders. I told her that she misdialed, that our numbers are one digit apart, and told her his number. Yes, I was a little weird, but no big deal.
Five minutes later, H calls me, wanted to know if I was mad. I told him no--and I wasn't, really. He said she was the female bartender he had mentioned before. (He has.) He also said she thought I sounded jealous on the phone. I said I had no idea what all I had said...lol...that I was drunk. He laughed and say that he was, too, and where he was at. We both had a good laugh. A couple of drunks talking to each other...lol... (He told me later, when we were both sober, what the convo was about.)
Went to bed around 4am. H calls at around 8am. I didn't answer the first time, but I did the second. He said he really need to talk. We spent over an hour on the phone. Mostly me just listening to him. This one was not such a bad talk. Although he did tell me one thing that very much upset me...that he had recently been afraid he didn't love me anymore. But he realized that was silly, since he also knew he didn't want me out of his life. And that he realized it was just because of all of the stress he's been under--that it just "masked" his other feelings for me. This kind of struck me, because it's the closest he's ever come to the ILBNILY line. I guess this probably explains the weird reactions I got not too long ago when I told him ILY.
I drove back to Chicago on Sunday. Got upset on the way over, so I called H. He didn't answer, so I left a message telling him I was just calling to say hi. He called me back, and we chatted for awhile. I wound up having to let him go--although I didn't let on that I was upset--because it was raining and dark, I wasn't familiar with the area, and my nighttime vision is kind of sketchy.
Got lost trying to find the hotel. Drove around Chicago for a bit...lol...
Was feeling pretty down when I got here. Wound up calling H. He figured out that I was upset, and our conversation started to escalate. I told him I wanted to go before I said something I didn't mean--I have such a hard time being careful of what I say once I get ramped up. He refused to let me go, said he couldn't stand it when I was upet. Kind of sweet, actually. We wound up talking for nearly two hours...
He kept asking me why I was so upset being away from him. I had slipped and told him that I had been upset every day for the last week. It's a bad habit of mine that I blurt out how much I'm hurt when I get worked up. I really need to stop. I finally did tell him that it was more because I had been having flashbacks. That the being apart and the phone calls reminded me so much of when we were living apart.
I did hear a lot of things from him. Strangely, they have calmed me down a lot. He admitted that he has always gotten these weird moods--even before we got married. That he just had hidden it better from me. Looking back, I can see the signs...little stuff he would say. I never thought much of it. H has always been a "the sky is falling" kind of guy. It's always about the worst-case-scenario with him.
I did ask him why he stopped hiding it from me. (As I recall, the first time he got withdrawn and moody was the summer after we got married. I have always wondered if it was because I was really cranky with him at the time...) He said, for one, he had not wanted to stress me out while I was in school, since I had so much going on with my field of study and finals and there was always some huge project. He then told me he also stopped keeping things from me because he felt he shouldn't anymore since we had gotten married. That he took his vows seriously (!!!!) and wanted to do things right. I have never heard him say anything like that.
These two things alone made me feel so much better. So much stuff made sense to me, then. I thanked him today for sharing that with me.
We also discussed my possibly seeing a counselor. Not sure how we're going to afford it. I told him I didn't want to mess us up just because my crazymaker gets the reins and runs wild on me at times. I would love it if he would go, but he has this real aversion to counseling...said he tried it before, and all it did was make him feel worse. I'm hoping that if I can find a good one, and it helps me, maybe he will be willing to go for some couples therapy time. If not, that's okay, too.
H called me early this morning. Which was kind of good, since I was having trouble waking up. We talked for another before my training...only hung up because I had to go. For a guy who says talking doesn't make him feel any better, he sure seems to want to do it a lot.
He called me again just at the end of my class, and clearly had just woken up. lol I called him when I got back to the hotel. Another hour conversation. Some interesting stuff...
We talked about maybe we moved back in together too soon. I have actually been thinking that for a little while, and I found it interesting he said the same thing. (Maybe H didn't get whatever it is that he needs to worked out.) No, we weren't talking seperation or anything, just living apart for some time again. He said one of the reasons he pretty much moved in with me again was he couldn't stand living with his mom. (They are a lot alike.) But he doesn't want to move out, either, because he would miss me--and he doesn't want the stress from his family.
We talked about possibly living apart for some time after he gets to the army and we move to Arizona. Although, we both thought it might be interesting to see how we are feeling after he does basic. He did repeat that he sees that as the most drastic step, and doesn't want to do that. I told him I would be okay with it, just living apart, but no seperation. I can understand he just may need some more time on his own. To be honest, it really did shape him up in a lot of areas. I was okay with that idea a year and a half ago, until xow convinced him he should seperate from me. Oh, well.
He also told me he still feels smothered at times, that he's afraid of how much I love him and that he won't be able to live up to my expectations. And he told me that he feels like he doesn't know how to make me happy. Hm. I'm thinking he may be asking me for some help here, since this is a topic that has come up a lot.
Oh, I also told H last night that I had suddenly realized that his lesser sex drive stopped bothering me so much. I used to get really hurt by it and feeling very unnattractive. I don't know when, but recently it stopped upsetting me. H is just...less interested than me.
So...things that I am doing that seem to be helping me.
I quit trying to chart all of the ups and downs, when he's alien, when he's not. In the past, this did work for me, because it was like sifting out all the good signs. It wasn't working for me the last month or so...just made me mad at the inconsistancies. Yeah, I know, silly...we all feel different at different times...but, hey, I have this weird thing where I hate discrepancies.
I have pulled back physically. Clearly he needed some space. When he gets like this, he calls me clingy...when he's in the mood for it, I'm affectionate. He has thanked me several times, said that I am giving him space, and he appreciates it.
H has also asked that I stop asking questions. I have really, really tried...it's so hard, sometimes. He promised to tell me more if I didn't push, and he has been trying to hold to that bargain. I do want to inquire about him and be interested in what's going on with him, but it's hard to tell what he finds intrusive sometimes.
And, in general, I am trying to reeeeelaaaaax. lol I have this tendency to get really, really wound up. And, I am much better than I used to be. Just keep reminding myself...sometimes, it just doesn't matter.
Something else that finally clicked with me. I only have a year or so with events that traumatized me. (And I was clearly traumatized...I get flashbacks, and sometimes very physical reactions.) And I get funny and withdrawn at times, even though I know I don't want to necessarily get away from H. H has a lot more stuff going on. I've always know that, but suddenly so much of his back-and-forth made sense to me. He's always said it wasn't about me. But suddenly, it sunk in to me what he might be feeling, and what might be motivating him. And wow, do I have this new insight into his perspective...
I'm also starting to just filter out the nonsense stuff he says. After all, it's basically the same stuff he's said in the past. I'm going to start putting it off to just "H's moods" when he talks like this. lol
I also decided sometime last yesterday that a lot of our intense discussions really aren't anything new to our R. I remember having them before. I remember H getting the same jery attitude. But I got over them much more quickly. (Although, I'm sure a lot of my problem now is because, when he got really mad this last time, he walked on me...) So, since perception is reality, I decided I was going to quit mentalling picturing our M as coming apart at the seams. lol I am now going to picture it as a perfectly normal M, which is recovering from a rough spot, and we are too very human people. And guess what? Do I feel a lot better!
Nothing special for Valentine's. (I saw it referred to as "VD" somewhere...haha...somehow I couldn't write that... ) I sent H a free ecard. I didn't get anything. He was going on again about how Valentine's is a comercially stuffed holiday, and he doesn't need one particular day to tell me he loves me. Very much his personality... Yes, I would love to have gotten something, even a little free ecard. But, oh well, I really wasn't expecting anything. And it is honestly okay with me.
Going home tomorrow evening! I can't wait...I miss my dog and my two kitties...and, of course, H.
Hi, Nevanna! Glad to hear you're having a good time in Chicago. Some things work for certain times in the sitch and then they stop working. It shows that Rs are indeed dynamic and complex, eh? I think you have a good handle of what's working / not working and are adjusting accordingly. Nothing for Valentine's day here either. TTYL.
NSN My current thread LUVR ... Listen, Understand, Validate, and Respond
Quote: Nothing special for Valentine's. (I saw it referred to as "VD" somewhere...haha...somehow I couldn't write that... ) I sent H a free ecard. I didn't get anything. He was going on again about how Valentine's is a comercially stuffed holiday, and he doesn't need one particular day to tell me he loves me. Very much his personality... Yes, I would love to have gotten something, even a little free ecard. But, oh well, I really wasn't expecting anything. And it is honestly okay with me.
Nevanna - read my post today on this very topic. You aren't doing him any favors in the long run by letting him treat you less than you deserve to be treated.
Just wanted to copy for my own reference what I posted over on ellie's thread...
Hey Ellie, stopped by like you suggested...
Interesting.
Yes, I am not much of a gifts person at all, either. As a matter of fact, they make me a bit uncomfortable.
The thought just occurred to me that maybe H assumes, because it's Valentine's, that if he does anything--it has to be about buying me something. And I know we don't have the money, and, again, neither of us are gift people.
In all honesty, he had asked me first about the ecard thing at the end of last week. That's why I sent him one. He had asked me where you could get some free ones, and at the time, I sent him some links. I halfway thought that I might get one today, although no expectations.
I've also thought that his current lack of interest may be due to the fact that he is still all stressed out. (Depressed might be a better word, actually.) In the past, despite his protestations, he has done things for me on Valentine's.
I like that you told your H about the holiday. And I think this also goes back to something I was saying on my thread earlier, too...about how H says he "doesn't know" what to do to make me happy. Maybe he just needs a bit of a nudge.
Quote: Although he did tell me one thing that very much upset me...that he had recently been afraid he didn't love me anymore. But he realized that was silly, since he also knew he didn't want me out of his life. And that he realized it was just because of all of the stress he's been under--that it just "masked" his other feelings for me. This kind of struck me, because it's the closest he's ever come to the ILBNILY line. I guess this probably explains the weird reactions I got not too long ago when I told him ILY.
Have you read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"? (I feel like I ask everyone that about a thousand times so apologies if I have already asked you).
ANYWAY...there's a section in there about how if men don't know that their desire for "cave time" is "normal" that they start to feel like they must not really love their partners.
Quote: He also told me he still feels smothered at times, that he's afraid of how much I love him and that he won't be able to live up to my expectations. And he told me that he feels like he doesn't know how to make me happy. Hm. I'm thinking he may be asking me for some help here, since this is a topic that has come up a lot.
Lost of clues here, huh?
I've been having trouble lately balancing my reactions to h to be non-reactive to his stress/cave time/etc. Thanks for posting about your interactions with h...helped me a lot.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I am...actually starting to feel pretty good again. H is still all out of whack, but, I think I'm getting used to it.
No, actually, I have not read M/V. Is it really that good? I heard it talked about sooo much on TV when it came out, that I just wasn't interested. I have this weird thing where I actually really don't want a product if it's pushed too hard. Always makes me wonder, if it's so great, why is everyone trying so hard to sell it?
Anyway, you got me to thinking last night... I wonder if H has gotten the impression from me that any cave time is going to hurt/upset me? He generally takes things to extremes anyway...lol... I've never minded him having some alone time or whatever, just object to being completely ignored and ditched. (Which has happened in the past.) I think I'm going to encourage him to take some time to himself...
So...I decided to do nothing about V-Day. I just felt in my gut that right now is a really bad time...and after some input from another DBer...just left it alone. H has really been into his "I don't know how to make you happy" mode, and I was afraid that the wrong time or approach might just make him feel much worse. Especially since he seems to be coming apart a bit lately.
I probably won't even mention it until next year. To be honest, all I really wanted was an unsolicted call or maybe a flower and free ecard. I don't like gifts that much. I had waaaay more sugar than I should have while I was in Chicago, so I didn't want chocolates. Didn't want to eat out. Some cuddling would have been nice, but I was out of town on business. H pretty much knew all of this anway. And besides, he really does not respond well if he feels the least little bit attacked. (And, no, not makeing escuses......just thinking it through, which sometimes I don't do before I get upset with H.)
He called me early morning again yesterday, sounding very upset and fragile. I just want to give him a big hug and make it all better...although I know better. That fixer in me has been tamed, thank goodness. But, I do wonder if this is how he felt all those times when I was falling apart at the seams, and would come or call him in absolute tears. We talked for over an hour and a half...it did make me a little late for training, but I didn't tell him that.
I did ask him what happened to the ecard thing when I talked to him yesterday when he called me in the morning--just sort of "Hey, you asked for those links, did you not get a chance?" He kind of sheepishly admitted he hadn't figured out how to navigate the site and send one. So...mystery solved.
H was happy to see me when I did get home. He actually was getting ready for work. I chatted with him while he took a shower. He got upset because he was actually feeling self-conscious...even though he had asked me to stay in there. I told him it was okay, I had felt the same way before, too.
Again, for a guy who says he doesn't like to talk, he's calling me an awful lot lately. Just listening, and telling him I've felt a lot of things he is telling me...
He did mention one thing last night that really struck me. He said he felt like maybe we're just kidding ourselves, and that maybe we're just trying to hang on to something that is gone. (And, even if he doesn't remember, he's said this to me before.) H also keeps asking if we are okay, said he feels like we are coming apart at the seams. I told him that I don't feel that way, I have had those feelings. He keeps asking how long it took them to go away, and I honestly don't know...just that they sort of faded, until I stopped noticing it.
It occurred to me, last night, that this is probably what I used to sound like...I was always asking him if we were all right, even if I knew better that to do it. If that's the case, I can just do for him what I would have like done for me--be patient, listen, and be reassuring.
Something else I noticed...although H has been very busy, he's been making sure to tell me that he's busy. And that's just fine with me. I realized that it's not that he had other plans that bothered me, just that I felt out of the loop. I'm going to make sure to thank him for taking the time to tell me what he has going on. This morning he called me after he got out of work (4am) to say he wanted to have some breakfast with these people head met at the club, and asking when I left for work. He said he didn't want to miss me before I left, but just really felt like he needed to be out for awhile. (Cave time?? ) I told him not to worry about it... I wasn't the least bit worried since he called me before I noticed he hadn't come home--and because he had thought of me, too. I'll have to be sure to thank him. Maybe a nice massage?
Oh, he's also been mentioning that he wants to spend a couple of days away, maybe with friends. I told him I thought it was a good idea. And, BTW, this is actually exactly what he said last year a week before I got bomb #2. But guess what? I'm not panicked at all. Huh. I did tell him this morning, when he asked me about it, that I feel like there's nothing I can really do to stop him from going if that's what he wants. (Although, for me, I think that would be the last straw.) Of course I don't want him to, and I would be upset, but if he's going to...he's going to... He actually told me that attitude made him feel better. (Less pressure? )
Don't know what's going on with H. He's pretty worked up right now. Childhood shtuff? Just now starting to deal with his feelings on everything we've been through? Don't know. He did mention that, sometimes, he felt like he was subconsciously trying to sabotage us. Besides the fact that I'm getting a lot of repeat alien jargon, I've noticed he seems more aware of what may be going on with him. Which is why, I think, he's also frustrated by his own reactions. But, the fact that he sees some of this stuff gives me a lot of reassurance. When I started to see the things I was doing, however inadvertant...well, that was when I really began to understand how I could change them.
I'm really tired today...four hours in a car yesterday, blech. I can't wait to get home and take a nap. H said he wanted to spend some time cuddling together. I know he already has plans for later, but that's okay.
Quote: No, actually, I have not read M/V. Is it really that good? I heard it talked about sooo much on TV when it came out, that I just wasn't interested. I have this weird thing where I actually really don't want a product if it's pushed too hard. Always makes me wonder, if it's so great, why is everyone trying so hard to sell it?
I totally resisted it too. But about 6 months into DB'ing I was at a plateau and was looking for ways to get off of it. I started listening to the tapes and it was a tremendous eye opener for me. It was amazing to me how much I was misunderstanding about h and our M. I recommend it to EVERYONE that's having M problems and I even gave it to my sister for part of her wedding present. It's like anything else...you'll take what you need from it but some of the topics (how to ask for what you want, keys to showing your h love, etc) were really pretty impactful in my m.
(and yes, it knocked us off the plateau!)
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi, Nevanna! One paragraph out of M/V - just for you!
Quote: ... when she is upset by his tendency to go into his cave, he may give up going into his cave in an attempt to fulfill her. This is a big mistake. If he gives up the cave (and denies his true nature) he becomes irritable, overly sensitive, defensive, weak, passive, or mean. And to make matters worse, he doesn't know why he has become so unpleasant (Gray, p89).
Get the book, girlfriend. I'm on this very chapter myself!
NSN My current thread LUVR ... Listen, Understand, Validate, and Respond
(The high-speed connection here is iffy...kept kicking me out of VPN when I had work I really couldn't have interrupted.) 
That's helped some.
And a day early, actually. BIL2 had invited him to go to a moto-cross thingy on Saturday. I told H yesterday that he should go, when he was waffling between what he wanted to do. Said I'm coming home on Tuesday, and it's not that long. 
Isn't it funny how that works? 
There was this female bartender there...and that was enough to send me back into thinking of xow. Yuck yuck yuck yuck. (She was a bartender.) The flashbacks were really bad...I was actually shaking. I wound up trying to talk more with my friend, to get my mind off of stuff...
Oh, well.