It's strangely easy to filter out the junk...probably because I've heard it all before. (And kind of funny, too... He'll say how much he likes the idea of having his own apartment, but close to mine so we can still spend time together--then, in the same breath, talk about how we're moving to Arizona, getting a house, and going to have a kid. Sheesh.)
And I realized why his sudden interest in email caused me so much tension. During our first sep, I remember laying in bed, hearing H on the computer using IM, just typing and laughing. (He hadn't moved out yet.) And that was the moment that I just knew he and xow weren't "just friends." Yuck. Bad memories...
I did call H last night just to tell him goodnight. He always seems to like that kind of stuf...
He woke me up when he got home. Several times. Wanted to know where the CD was to install Word...and then still couldn't find it... lol When he did come to bed, I remember him getting about as close as physically possible to me. Kind of squashed, me actually. ( )
I did notice that, after he's been distracted, he seems like "normal" again. (And of, course, after no pressure from me. ) I think he may have his own little crazymaker to deal with.
Think I'm going to find more things to do outside of the house for awhile. As much as I just enjoy going home, relaxing, and drawing...I think it may do both of some good if I spend some time outside of the house. Anybody else live in Indiana??? lol
Clearly he thinks they're saying I'm upset! That's a good point, I'll try to pay more attention...
Quote: BTW, reddish purple hair?
I'm probably exaggerating. It looks like a crayon. It certainly got a reaction of people at work this morning! lol They claimed they liked it...lol...but I'm skeptical. It was supposed to be red, but a whole lot more subtle. Ah, well.
Quote: what is H going to do about his hair when he goes to basic?
Cut it. Which is why he wants to do all of this weird stuff to it now. BIL2 actually had hair almost as long. Had to cut his, too, when he joined the guard.
So, H is supposed to go sign up for his GED today. Yay! I'm excited for him. I promised to reimburse him when I get payed later this week.
Oh...had another couple of thoughs. H seems to have an easier time talking to me when the romantics aspects of our relationship have been backed off of. Not sure why.
I also thought...maybe the guy's just been trying too hard for too long, and needs a "break." The kind where you just need to let go and be neurotic for awhile.
Whatever. Random thoughts...trying to get inside his head won't work anyway.
In keeping with my decision to post the positives to shift my focus...
H just called--noon being kind of early for him. Said he missed. Sounded pretty normal on the phone. We only talked a second...BIL2 knocked on the door to pick him up for some errands.
I do think fixing his car will help alleviate some of his tension. H has a thing about feeling cooped up. And we get to do to that this week since I get paid on Thursday. Two months with only one car...yick.
H managed to call me a total of four times this afternoon before I got home from work--twice just to ask me how to spell some stuff.
While I was at work, found out female coworker had an ex-fiancee. Guess she dumped him because he cheated on her. I made the (flippant) comment "Well, of course!" or something like that. But inside, it just twisted my gut to think about it...
I had gotten myself worked up enough the other day about who he was emailing and what, I was just wanting so badly to install a keystroke logger on his computer so I could get at those emails. I know, I know...of course I didn't do it... Realized that leads to all kinds of controlling behaviours, and I am not going to turn into that kind of person.
So, I got home, and H told me he wasn't feeling well. I wanted to touch his shoulder, give him some comfort...but I didn't. I offerred to make some hot tea. He asked me for a hug, which I did. He's been initiating more physical conact since I've stopped, which is good.
Got some more alien-talk. It seems to be getting worse... sigh I'm trying to filter it out. I'm beginning to wonder if telling him I had doubts at one point was a good idea.
H told me he had talked to someone about your issues today. Said he couldn't help it. I wanted to scream, but I thanked him for sharing that with me. Waited a few minutes, and asked (gently...I think...) what the gender of the person was. He said female.
I didn't ask who. Did say that wasn't a good idea. He said he didn't see why not. I said--still trying to speak conversationally--because he should be coming to me. (Wonder if that's why his alien side seemed worse?) He told me he was fighting himself even more this time...that the feeling was stronger than before. (Ugh...could just feel my heart hit my stomach.)
He volunteered who he was speaking with--a married FF. I didn't say that doesn't mean anything. Got the speech of how he's not interested, wouldn't want to hurt her husband, blah blah blah. Yeah, heard this one before, too. I just said it's dangerous territory--those are emotions being taken away from the M. He went on about how he's smarter than that, same old BS speech I've heard before. Really wanted to tell him I've heard this all before...but just didn't.
He went downstairs to take a look at his car. I logged on to write, and just broke down crying. I really need a good cry. I had forgotten how often I thought of giving up before... Why didn't I? I don't know. Too stubborn? Too stupid? Take your pick.
Well, H came back up before I had a chance to calm down. The dog made a lot of noise, and I sucked it up, wiped my eyes, and pretended to be trying to fix my drawing program. H was talking about the car...got some (mild) criticism of how I should have realized something was wrong sooner. (Grrr...he knows I feel guilty, anyway.)
He didn't say anything. Maybe too distracted. He did sit near me on the couch, though, to read his tech manual. Was complaining how MIL thinks we don't love each other--which, according to him, is just plain silly--since we sometimes go out and do stuff apart.
H did say, several times, that if I wanted some time alone he would just go stay at his mom's. Not sure if this is a result of the fact that I told him I got weird, or if he's looking for an out. I just said "okay," but didn't pursue it.
H also hugged me several times...kept saying he felt like he hadn't held me in awhile. Sheesh. I keep picturing this little ping pong ball, going back and forth, back and forth...
I really need a good cry. I think I'm just going to curl up and let loose when H goes over to his brother's house.
So...after H got out of the restroom, he was hugging and kissing on me. Again. I'm just going to tell myself this, again, so it'll sink into my starting-to-panic head: Actions speak louder than words.
Oh...and he was talking about how we're going to move to Arizona, and get our finances in order. (Going to get my mind off the weirdness!!) We talked about that plan. Which reminds me, gotta dig up all the credit card stuff so we can look into consolidation. sigh This actually gives me a lot of relief, since some of these have just been in my name, even though I used them to cover for both of us when we couldn't pay the bills. Getting a consolidation loan will put both of our names on the bill.
After H left for his mom's house, I wound up just letting go, and having a good cry. It felt kind of good to just let loose for a little bit. It always does. Unfortunately, H came home before I was done. sigh
I was in the bedroom, putting the pillowcases back on. H came in, and I was trying to stop. But he could hear me sniffling. He asked me if I was upset, and I denied it. He came over and gave me a big hug...and I just lost it.
He asked me what was wrong, and I started babbling something about not knowing what he needed. It took me awhile to get out something coherent--although his holding me felt sooooo good. I told him I was afraid there was some need of his that I wasn't fulfilling, and just didn't know what that was because he wasn't telling me.
He told me that it wasn't me, that I was doing everything just fine. (BTW, I've heard that before...so it doesn't do anything to convince me.)
I calmed down, wandered in the other room...and realized I had left up both the BB and some reading I had been doing on the computer screen. Sheesh. I went to minimize them, but H asked what they were. I told him that one was the BB, and other was the first chapter of a book on meeting your spouse's needs. He wanted to see that one. Unfortunately...I had gotten to the part on how affairs start. So...he read the article. Old passive agressive me would have left it up for him to find "accidentally," but I really didn't mean for him to come across it. He read it, sounded startled at a couple of parts and commented that he'd said stuff like that before. Maybe it was a good read for him, after all...
H sat down on the little couch, and pulled me onto his lap. The dog must have been bothered that I was upset, because she jumped on us both and wedged in between us. (She's pretty little.)
He told me he has a horrible rebellious streak--doesn't want to do something just because he's "supposed to." Got a bit upset, said he didn't like the fact that I had asked him about his emails the previous day. I let him blow off some steam, just validated. (Even though I felt that I had been gentle when I asked.)
H also said he doesn't understand why he "has" to live with me. That, if he wants his own place, he should be able to have it. I just listened. Nevermind he used to enjoy "playing house" with me. And that he has told me repeatedly how much he hated not having me there when he woke up. I think this one can fall under the category of alien-speak...so I'm going to try and ignore it.
H also went off about how he likes to have "his" friends. That he doesn't want to share. That's he possesive, has never like sharing--not even as a kid, because then he didn't feel like things were "his." He didn't see why I should have to know who he hangs out with, didn't see a problem with that. (It's not that I want to push my way into "his" group...I'm just so uneasy about him having friends I don't know...because it seems to have caused problems in the past. The female ones.) He got kind of worked up, and I validated. Said I just have to accept him, because he can't change. I agree I have to work on letting go and accepting, but the idea that he can't change really gripes me.
H told me he's afraid of doing something "stupid" if he gets pressured. I asked if I was pressuring him, and he said no. I asked him to tell me if at some point he felt pressured, and he agreed.
And then he said that it was really bothering him what I had said about at one point that I considered leaving. That he realized then that he must have hurt me incredibly badly for me to consider leaving. I told him my fear was because I didn't want to get hurt again. He said he couldn't believe that me, his [insert my name here ] had actually considered leaving him. The one who loved him more than anything. I think this really must have shaken him.
He also said that he hates sharing his feelings. Doesn't feel like he should have to. That he enjoys keeping the deeper stuff hidden from other people. Is he afraid of being vulnerable? Of getting hurt? Validate, validate...
H then told me that he "see her f'ing face everywhere." (xow) Wow, even I'm calmer than that. I wonder if I can gently introduce the stop sign or thought stopping/replacing at some other point...? I just listened, told him I didn't know that. He said he feels like he was more traumatized than me, and can't understand why he did that.
And that his guilt is horrible. That seeing the show the other day where the reason why many R's fail post PA is not because of the betray spouse, but because the other spouse can't get over the guilt. (Is this was trigger all of this?)
I wanted to offer to help, to find him books or resources or whatever. But I know this has been a huge problem for me in the past, and I honestly think it made him feel worse.
H said that was the reason he cleans the kitchen so much. That he wants to clean for me, to make it up to me. (And maybe why he's constantly asking if it looks nice?? Maybe I can make a stronger effort to be more appreciative of all of the things he does for me.) He also said he's lost interest in a lot of things...even video games...and was literally forcing himself to play on the computer. Otherwise, he would just sit in the dark and brood--but he knows that's not healthy.
He also told me that he's afraid he will do this in other R's. That he'll just never learn, and keep making the same mistakes over and over, and will wind up with a string of ex-wives. But just be alone in his old age.
Then he glanced at me, and emphasized that he still wanted to have a baby.
I could tell he was avoiding looking me in the eye. I asked if he felt guily, and nodded. I lightly touched his arm, and told him that I forgave him. That it was okay to forgive himself.
H said it might be awhile before we ML again, that he just can't when he's feeling too upset. I told him I already knew that.
I tried asking him when he felt better. He said "never," that he always thinks about it. (Uh-huh. Probably just couldn't remember at the moment.) I asked if there were times he thought about it less. He said no...then changed his mind, and said when he was distracted, and added very emphatically the gym. (Aha!) I asked if he wanted to go--it was very late--and he said no, he felt ill. (He's picked up a stomach bug.) I told him I had felt just great a couple of weeks ago at Christmas. He brightened up, said he had too. I ran with that one, and started pulling up fun memories we had talked about. That actually seemed to work, and he cheered up a little.
I went to bed, and he went to his mom's house for a little while again. I think he just needed out of the apartment.
I crawled into bed--I had somewhat dozed off on the couch--and called him. I told him goodnight--my voice sounding really sleepy. He softened on the phone, told me how much he loved hearing that, and that he would be "home soon."
He came into the bedroom--I don't know when he got home--and I smiled while he talked me. No idea what he said. When he did come to bed, I remember him saying he wanted to talk to me. H never says that, and I really wish I had been able to wake up and listen to him properly. (No wonder I'm late to work all of the time....)
H was actually up before me this morning. His stomach problems had only gotten worse, poor guy. He thinks he ain't something that was bad, and was complaining he felt cold.
He was watching me as I was getting dressed, and commented that I looked nice. (YAY! WOA. ) I thanked him. He sounded pretty wistful when he said I looked beautiful. I went over next to him, took his hand. He was avoiding my eyes again. Said it was times like that, when he saw how beautiful I was, that he felt the most guilty. I told him that it was okay, and took his hand. He said felt alone. I told him I was here for him. He said he felt alone with his emotions, because he couldn't talk to anyone else--out of respect for me. I told him that I was always there for him, if he wants to talk. Hearing that made me just ache...I just wish he felt like he could talk to me.
I took the time to walk the dog before I left, so he wouldn't have to...even though it made me late. (Again.)
H called me a little bit ago. Just wanted to whine because he's feeling sick. We talked for a few minutes before hanging up. Then, he called me back a minute later, wanting me to spell some stuff for him. Must have been writing some emails. Asked me to spell all kinds of weird stuff--"get some" and "sweetie". I didn't comment on the "get some"...got my crazymaker in check ...and he added that he was talking about me as his "sweetie." Also told me who he was writing to, and that he was just complaining about being sick. So, I'm guessing he was trying to reassure me. I really, really, really need to let go of this stupid anxiety I have about him making new friends. Sheesh.
H also asked me if he could show me some stuff on the car once it warms up. I wanted to get defensive--sorry I broke your car!--but didn't. I just agreed. Said he wanted to show me how to check the oil and that sort of thing. I agreed, said it sounded nice. (I'm betting this is a direct result of when I called him multiple times last week because my "low oil" light came on, and I had a horrible time adding oil to the car.) I know in the past he has said he wants to show me things, and I've been really guarded about it. Trying to keep an open mind.
So...I'm rethinking my strategy. I'm wondering if H is where I was months ago. Maybe I can help distract him? Try to do stuff to create that warm fuzzy feeling? Maybe see if he wants to play some Mario Cart with me? Things like that. Mix that in with staying backed off in a physical way...drop any references to ML, so no pressure there. Also want to try to figure out how I can drop in the "stop sign" or thought stopping/replacing, without it being obvious what I'm doing. I know if I can do that, maybe I can get him to think about it.
Quote: He told me that it wasn't me, that I was doing everything just fine. (BTW, I've heard that before...so it doesn't do anything to convince me.)
Okay, Nev. I have been reading you daily lately, and I share your concerns over your H's recent behavior. I hate to tell you this, and you probably will not want to hear it right now, but he is right in the above.
You are doing fine. There is nothing you can do to change the feelings or thoughts he is expressing right now. You can't logically argue about why he should be open about who he is hanging out with - if you needing to hear this from him isn't enough, he isn't going to get it.
He has expressed a refusal to change. You need to decide where your boundaries are. Thee is a difference between correcting the things in you that you KNOW need changing, and torturing yourself trying to be perfect for him - completely nondemanding, nonthreatening, and nonchallenging. Is that who you are?
I want to see more of him nurturing you. You deserve a break from trying to be Superwife. His guilt is, unfortunately, his issue. You can't make it go away, and it is unfair of him, imho, to ask you to try. It seems like he expects you to hide your hurt from him so that he doesn't feel bad. If I am way off base, I hope you will forgive me.
I know how hard you are working, and you should be able to (at some point) relax into your marriage and just enjoy it. Your needs and wants are OKAY. You are OKAY. This is his weirdness right now. You are allowed to still be hurt, and scared, and all the other things you are feeling.
You are great at being understanding where your H is concerned. Well, I am going to encourage you to be understanding where YOU are concerned. Be gentle with yourself. You have been through a lot, and what your H has been through has been due to his own choices.
You deserve to be honored. That doesn't mean I am suggesting any specific course of action, just reminding you that you are a precious and wonderful human being, and you deserve to feel safe in your marriage. You are doing WONDERFULLY, and I for one, have great admiration for you.
Huge hugs, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
So, just talked to H on the phone earlier. Called to tell him I had scheduled an appointment to look into consolidating our debts. Said he didn't have to go, since it was on a Saturday morning. He thanked me.
I could tell he was uptight. He was pushing about the money thing. Again. I overdrew the account--technically, my money, since he doesn't work much and just carries the cash he makes. He had been asking me about borrowing from my parents. Okay, pushing me to. I have been trying to stop doing that since I finally got a full-time position.
I told him I had gone to their house on lunch, but they were away. (Stayed and had lunch there since I wasn't feeling good, anyway.) Then he was pushing to know how much the account was overdrawn. I said I didn't know--I hadn't checked--but he could pull a statment from an ATM. I told him that he was pushing too hard, and he really need to stop pressuring. He apologized (still sounding tense), said he was just worried about getting his car fixed. I told him that the card will work, since I applied for overdraft protection, so he doesn't need to worry about it being deactivated. Just that we shouldn't be spending any more until I get paid. (In two days, mind you...it's not like we're completely screwed.)
H said he hadn't known about the overdraft protection. I responded--before I thought about it--that he had been there when I applied when I opened the account. Probably shouldn't have said that.
He told me he had signed up for his GED test, Feb 8. (7th?) I told him I was glad, and asked how he was feeling. He said he was feeling. I said I was going to let him go, since I was headed back to work. He said okay. No ILY from him, so I didn't volunteer one.
I know I screwed up on the money. I get bad at it when I get stressed out. One of the things I'm trying to change... I'm going to see about getting the credit cards consolidated. Then I'm going to start actually balancing every week, and paying bills every two when I get paid. I got pretty good at it when I was living alone. Unfortunately, I got out of the habit the last couple of months. Ooops.
And, instead of just telling H whether or not we had money to do whatever, I think I'm going to start going over the bank statements and check register with him...at least every couple of months. That way, I won't feel frustrated when he doesn't know we don't have enough money, and maybe he won't feel like I have all of the control. (He has this real thing about feeling like I'm in control...)
I'm beginning to really get the feeling that this has nothing to do with me. Yes, I did need to make some changes. And yes, I think there are still some things I need to figure out about his needs. But, sheesh, he seems frustrated an awful lot, and there always seems to a reason. We don't have enough money. (His choice to quit work and go to school!) We don't live where he wants to live. (Although I do want to move, too.) His car is broken down. (It's been that way for tow months...) He's not in school yet. He's not doing what he wants. (All his.) Maybe it's just a side effect of the depression because of his guilt? Maybe he's an early case of MLC? (I don't really think so, anyway.) Maybe these are just relationship growing pains, leading to a new and better M. Hey, I can hope, can't I?? LOL
Guess I'm too much of a problem solver. I didn't break him, I can't fix him.
Nev- Maybe you could suggest to him that he do something proactive about the circumstances that are so frustrating to him. I would flat out refuse to borrow from your parents, and I would encourage H to cut out unecessary expenses like going out, etc. He isn't working right now, so he needs to not be a financial drain on you. Why not encourage him to find part-time work while he is waiting to take his GED test? Even 20 hours a week would help you guys a lot!
I don't really think he is in a position to judge you for the overdraw, because honestly (and I hope you won't think I am being needlessly harsh here) I think he is being pretty financially irresponsible himself.
You are doing FINE! This isn't you...this is his problem, and until he realizes he doesn't have to be a victim of all these circumstances he is frustrated with, his feelings probably won't change. He needs to put a lot more effort into this, IMHO.
You are doing great. I don't know how you could possibly do more. It is his turn to step up.
Big, big hugs, Myrrh
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster. One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
(And kind of funny, too... He'll say how much he likes the idea of having his own apartment, but close to mine so we can still spend time together--then, in the same breath, talk about how we're moving to Arizona, getting a house, and going to have a kid. Sheesh.)
He always seems to like that kind of stuf...
)
) I think he may have his own little crazymaker to deal with. 
And what is H going to do about his hair when he goes to basic? 
I know, I know...of course I didn't do it... Realized that leads to all kinds of controlling behaviours, and I am not going to turn into that kind of person. 
So...he read the article. Old passive agressive me would have left it up for him to find "accidentally," but I really didn't mean for him to come across it. He read it, sounded startled at a couple of parts and commented that he'd said stuff like that before. Maybe it was a good read for him, after all...