Thanks H2H, I could learn a lot from a single girl.
I started to type W a note about this morning, but called her at work instead. There's DBing and there is common decency, and I decided that I'm not going to allow her to think it's okay to blow up at me in front of the kids--and regardless of whether she likes it or not, I'm going to continue to establish my boundaries for what I can accept.
So I told her that I recognize that she was mad at me and felt disrespected, but waking up the kids and saying in front of them that they should be awaken so they can hear how much I abuse her was simply inappropriate and made me extremely upset. I added that while I can't control what she says and that I didn't want to fight in front of the kids, to me this was unacceptable and I'd have to think about how I prevent this from happening again..
Not surprisingly, she replied that she would rather let the kids know up front then do things silently like me (huh?) and there are two sides to every story (hers and hers? ) and then said she had to go.
Ooooh, methinks that she knows you got her by the short and curlies.
And my hats off to you for stating a really good boundary. I am SO behind you that you better feel me on your butt. I'm going to be joining H2H as a single girl. Better watch out.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Thanks for the support. You know something, absolutely nothing has chgnaged in the past year. The following occurred this morning, and I just as easily could have written the same thing one year ago.
At 6:15, as I was finishing my shower, W opens the shower door and says she needs to talk to me. I closed the shower door. She said that I needed to understand that while I felt I could not trust her (her latest projection of a comment I have made twice in the past year), it was her who could not trust me for all these years. She trusted me to have a marriage, a relationship, etc., and while it’s not my fault, I did not fulfill her trust and expectations and that is why we are here today. I did not look at her or utter a sound. I just listened and proceeded out of the shower and went through my morning routine of putting in my lenses and shaving.
She continued. She can see the anger in my eyes when I interact with her (n.b., angst perhaps, but not anger ), she knows that I see her as evil for what she is doing, but as far as the kids are concerned, God knows we are all human and not perfect, so while she is usually strong, for a moment she slipped and failed, and as a Christian, I should understand that. I should note that this was said, not with a remorseful tone, but a defensive one. She added that her reaction was normal given all that I have done to her. She left, closed the door, and…
she came back and said scoffingly, “Are you willing to make love to me? Can you make love to me? I fought the urge to say something and remained silent. She left, closed the door, and…
she came back to say she didn’t understand me. That I was so weak and pathetic I could not face these issues inside of me alone and was unable to give her any answers without my friends or people I’ve met on the Internet. And for good measure, pursuing a divorce was not her idea, but mine. That I told her for months that she should get a lawyer and that I told everyone in her family will confirm this…and that 10 people know this so she can’t be wrong. Thus, it is my choice. And I’m supposed to be attracted to you? Every now and then she’d give her Stepford wife smile. Again, I said not a word--no taking the bait.
For this morning’s icing n the cake, she left some papers on our stairs. They were mostly mine and I picked up all of them except one which was a notice on a local matter. As I was leaving (with S10 and D6 present), she yells out that she left these papers for me and couldn’t understand why I took all except for this one sheet. I said it wasn’t mine and I thought she might want it. Her reply, “Why would I want this? Why couldn’t you pick this up? What were you waiting for? The Maid? I don’t understand you?” I just said in a friendly tone, “Sorry. I thought it was yours. Gotta go everyone!” and went out the door.
Of course, I guess I shouldn't say that nothing has changed. Last year, I would have allowed her comments to linger in my head, might have DB''d and said I realize that she feels I failed her (to which she would say--then juts move) and I would not have my fallback on Christ as my most effective thought stopper, rock, and foundation. Perhaps the next time she says let's , I'll take her up--even though she will then accuse me of taking advantage of her. At least my slump will be over!
Agaian, IMHO, for those of you whose WAW's have left, count your blessings. This is not fun.
Merrick, buddy, pal, o chum of mine, there's only one word to describe what your going through.......
UGH!
You have had one heck of a year my friend. But I can say that you have developed a strong resolve about yourself. You have taken some lumps and have come out shining by the grace of God.
I find it truly amazing how much my XW seems to "grasp at straws" in order to make her justify for what she is doing in the sitch. Day to day, I see no acceptance, see no remorse, nor any responsibility taken in what happened in our M. All i see is a finger pointed straight at me, and not just her finger, but her circle of friends too.
My XW too has 10 or so people that will back up whatever claim she has made. All i can do is sit there and smile, knowing that I am the one who holds the truth and the whole truth. These people have the unfortunate luxury to only know half the story, and if they did know the whole truth, well, can't say for sure the ramifications of that. But if these people, my so called mutual friends or ex family members, don't take the time to ask and verify, I say good riddance. Cause that is definitely not what friends do in my opinion.
Standing tall (well, maybe medium in our cases), and proud is what we have. I have made new friends, who tell me often that I have a good heart and it has a path that is equal to none. For that, I am grateful.
And the best part is.........I get a smile from my kids every time I see them. (and the I love yous and hugs/ kisses really help too).
I am a truly happy man, as I see that for you also. She's fishing big time my friend, just don't take the bait.
Triple J
Things were different then. All is different now. I tried to explain, somehow..........
Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam)
Well at least I know the answer to one question that Divorcebusting.com was unable to provide after several inquiries many months back--they can pull threads and posts. So two posts of mine--one a parody and another critical of certain DB business practices have been yanked. Let's see if this post makes three!
As for me, not much to report. I think W plans to file for D after the holidays and the litigation will begin. This is not what I want, but as my Catechist told me, the devil will try everything to push me off my path of conversion and I should expect things to get worse before better. How true! Be good y'all!
How are you today? Hehehe read your post yesterday. Yes I do believe a lot of what you sad is true. But on the other hand things here do have their place. A lot has happened to me in the past 6 months,if anything this has been a great place to VENT.
Christian
"I'm not to sure that this will go the way I or any of us want, but maybe go the way it has to."
Strap in, I don't know where to even begin and this is as messy as my sitch has ever been. No DBing tools in sight, but I need to journal for my own purposes.
INVASION OF THE IN-LAWS
Last night, W had an office party I was unaware of and ILs were watching my kids when I got home.
MIL takes on form of W and says we need to talk about what's going on here.
I say I will not talk in front of kids.
MIL says they can't hear (just like W says and MIL once told me the kids here everything). I walk away. MIL pursues and says this can't continue and the kids are being hurt.
My BIL is there and tries to get his parents away. I try to back away, but in my foolish effort at conciliation, I say I know how this must hurt her, but I'm trying to my best.
MIL responds that what I'm doing is not working and the kids are being hurt because of how I'm breaking down W. This is W's line and hits a nerve, so I say nobody cares about the kids as much as I and MIL says if that's so, why do you make her sleep on the couch like a dog (perhaps something else) and all the other things I do to her.
I reply that if she'd like, she can read my 140 page journal about everything that has happened this past year. MIL replies W has her own.
FIL adds that I said I treated W like sh*t.
I reply that I never said that. I said that I'm not perfect and rather than looking at me as wholly innocent, I've done things that I wish I had not done. I then asked, "Have you treated MIL like gold all the time?" MIL says, "Yes, he has." (W has said they were always fighting, wouldn't talk, and MIL even considered a D a few years ago!)
FIL chirps in again with something like, why don't you just do the right thing and leave.
I hit his raw nerve by saying well if that's what you want, we can just sell the house because that's what's going to happen to settle affairs. ILs sold us this house and he charges me using the F word saying if that's the case, I owe him money!
I say, "You think this is all about money?!" I take my coat off and throw it in the snow saying, you can have everything I have, this was never about money!
Meanwhile, D6 is at the front door crying and asking us to stop. So I go to her. I then go outside and say "I'm sorry, this stink, and I never asked for any of this." They leave. All my kids see this scene front he window as it occurred out in the street.
The W Enters while More Gasoline Flows and Sparks Fly
Meanwhile, W calls on phone and immediately says thanks for having your mother attack me telling me I'm such an SOB to her daughter and that I have to leave to save you and the kids and this is all my fault.
This starts a shouting phone call for the next ten minutes. on all the past 15 years on her hurts and how I've left her with nothing. And I gave back in ways I have never done before saying that when she treated me like crap for 15 years--what did she expect in return.
When this ended, I felt as sick in my stomach as I have ever felt in my life. I called TKKC1--and then W entered the house
W starts ripping into me in front of the kids saying everything I have done wrong and she should pack her bags now because everyone thinks she is destroying the family. I try to get her to stop in front of the kid--but she says since I want her to move and a nanny to raise the kids--let's tell the kids now. This starts a mini-discussion on the appropriateness of raising anything with them now--me arguing for delay and W saying, "Why wait,"
Now all three kids retreat to upstairs asking us to stop fighting, but W continues saying everything I have done wrong in front of them and I keep asking her to stop.
When she shows no sign of slowing down, I desperate to stop her and say I'm going to call the police. W says, "What for?" I reply, "Child abuse."
W cackles and as I get closer to her, I smell alcohol on her breath--and the light bulb goes off that she has been at an office party.
I say, "Ahhhh. I smell alcohol. Now I understand. Her response was as expected from denial to I had one glass of wine. I say, "Sure you did." And she replies calling me names.
But for whatever reason, this seems to turn the convo--and we begin focusing on repairing the damage to the kids.
D9 says all the troubles began when I decided to become a Catholic. D6 says we were fighting way before then! S10 says both of them don't know a thing. Btw, what was most sad for me --and there was a lot to be sad about--is that S10 had tears from the fighting and he can be as steely as can be. D9 then decides she doesn't want to speak with me.
INTERMISSION
When they get to bed, I go out to dinner with TKKC1.
W RELOADS
I get home about 11:15 and W seems asleep. I go to wrap some Christmas presents/baseball items I had bought for my S10 during this summer. W knows about these gifts and I bought others for the girls to balance it.
W enters our bedroom asking what I'm doing and when I tell her, she says I'm giving him too much, the girls will be upset, and I should give him one of the items for his birthday in the summer. She also says I'm using the wrong wrapping paper, she has bought her own, the kids will recognize the wrap I'm using, and if I persist in wrapping, I will ruin Christmas for them because they will know the wrap did not come from Santa. I left the room and made it clear I will not speak to her at all.
End of night.
STORMY SEAS CONTINUE IN THE THE MORNING
This morning, W still wants to pursue and I refuse to talk and focus on the kids. They are as upbeat as can be, but I have to help persuade D6 to participate in her Christmas show that morning at school--which she is nervous about. D9 is all talkative with me and S10 is cheery.
When the kids are gone, W asks if we can talk and I say I'll talk if we go to Starbucks in a neutral place. She doesn't like this--so I go on my own and out to a store to buy one last Christmas present. Stupid me, I needed to talk with W about one last present and she wants to get into everything. I repeat a theme that my heart is open to reconciliation and she has to help me provide her the R she wants in an M. BUT, if that's not the course she chooses, I will defend myself and my interests aggressively. She naturally takes this as my desire to destroy her and turns this around as my unwillingness to do anything unless under my terms.
When I get back home, she says that she is willing to show me how to have an R with her, just not a married one. Is that acceptable to me? I ask what this means, and she says in essence that I move out. I balk and say I offered a joint separation but your attorney said no way. She said her attorney never said this (so one of our L's is lying) and in any event, the kids don't want her to leave.
I ask who said, this and W replies that D9 said so and that is why she was so upset last night--that she thought the police were going to take Mommy away if I called. I said that's not the same thing, and did S10 and D6 have any views? She said D6 was too young, so I said, it would be just as easy for me to exactly what you do and say, "Let's sit down with the kids and you can tell them that you want a divorce, Daddy doesn't, but since you're unhappy, I want Daddy to leave."
Predictably, W responded that she would have to tell them that she begged Daddy for a marriage, but I wouldn't give it to her and now it is over.
I answered that she didn't want an H, she wanted a puppy dog, and if the dog didn't lick her at all times, she would kick it, kick it, and kick it, until the puppy retreated to the computer or TV. Having a sense that there's is only so much bottom to scrape, I continued that she rejected me for years, always found reasons to discard my feelings, and that it was inevitable that I would retreat. But, in an astonishing display of hope--I said I can still look past the entire past if we wanted to go forward together.
To which she replied, but if I don't, you will destroy me.
There is so much more, but just MOTS.
TWILIGHT ZONE MOMENT
Now, after all this, I actually went to D6's show and sat near my W and ILs!
D6 and her classmates performed five songs marvelously and I could have cried for how good she made me feel!!! . To me, that little face embodied all the goodness that life can be!
And to top the morning off, a guy starts talking to me on the train because he was at the same show for his kids and it turns out he had a WAW who left and was D'd three years ago--and is now only recovering to find his W is signaling she wants her old life back--but it's too late. He has moved on.
WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE???????????
My mind starts thinking about a settlement I may offer, but when I get into work, TKKC1 has sent me a link on Catholics maintaining the good fight to save their M's!!!
How am I possibly going to spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with W's family??????
A LIGHT NOTE FOR DBERS
I should add that W keeps questioning who keeps tellig me to say the things I do. And on atr least three occassions she questioned what this Underdog (W used real name) Betsey is telling me and how much am I speaking to her!
Wow, it sounds like you definitely have quite a battle going on. It's got to be tough to maintain any hopefullness in your situation, but it sounds like you're handling it well.
When are the times lately that the two of you are getting along better? When things seem to be less heated between you? The times when you seem to be connecting better?
Also, it seems that your "talks" don't go too well. (Is that an understatement?! ). What other "mediums" have you tried (like letters, emails, phone calls, etc.) that has produced some better results for you?
In the past, what was your "fighting style" that seemed to work best? What kinds of "truce triggers" did you have to keep things from going to far? What kinds of "where's" and "when's" worked better? A certain time of day, a certain place, etc.
I have to agree with Ellie and Laurie about not placing too much emphasis on the possibility of BPD. Although most waw's do exhibit some of the tendencys of this disorder, there's usually just a lot of other stuff going on inside of them.
You're in a tough situation, and the Holidays can have a tendency to make things even more emotional. Be sure that you're doing enough to really take care of yourself, both physically and emotionally, and take breaks when you need to. This is all VERY draining, and can take it's toll on you in a hurry!
Hope that some of these questions help a bit, and maybe give you some different directions to look in.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
I sent you an e-mail as well. (Basically just saying WOW.)
Quote: A LIGHT NOTE FOR DBERS
I should add that W keeps questioning who keeps tellig me to say the things I do. And on atr least three occassions she questioned what this Underdog (W used real name) Betsey is telling me and how much am I speaking to her!
For the record, I'm going to clarify here for those who are not in the know...
Merrick and I do chat on the phone occasionally... or seldom... or frequently. We've become Catholic comrades here and have found common ground.
He's been diligent about only talking to me (and other DBers) when his W is not around to jump to her own conclusions. And when he was here in Denver last summer, chose to not address the fact that we went to mass together, had breakfast and then he came over to my house to meet my girls... as friends do.
It was easier not to disclose, and we both understood why. It's a no win situation for my New York friend.
At some point, she realized that he was getting another female POV and attempting to understand her more. Perhaps because on a bad day, I might be his W? Not to mention that he has enlisted local support of fellow DBers--namely TKCC1, Heart2Heart and JinBklyn as well as others south of the Big Apple. He's got a good network of support out there.
He talked with me about her perception, and asked for a little input on how to be honest and do damage control. I think he did it eloquently.
My name was brought up and he told her that I was a friend who was Catholic and who was experiencing similar struggles. He fully disclosed that we talk about our faith and how these struggles affect us. And let her know without any hesitation that our friendship is not clandestine or secretive.
So please know that he's been forthright about our communications and the nature of our friendship.
That's all for me right at the moment. Back to your regularly scheduled program, with JJ at the helm.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I'm going to be joining H2H as a single girl. Better watch out. 
Betsey 
, I'll take her up--even though she will then accuse me of taking advantage of her. At least my slump will be over! 
Betsey