Betsey - I knew you would understand this one - as another eldest child My mum has been great, she has accepted that I need to do things my way. I fear NG's habits are those I have been feeding over almost 20 years - my mistaken definition of love - that I should make life easy for him, regardless of what discomfort it causes me. Don't get me wrong, I care for him enough to want to make his life better, but no more at unacceptable cost to myself
The trick now is to have sufficient self confidence to listen to my heart, and decide what is acceptable to me. Often, I work out a limit, and crumble at the first obstacle. I need more strength to stick with the decisions that I know are right for me.
This is a huge lesson. I disagree with the birth order theory on this one, however. My older brother was treated as a prince. His life was filled with important matters... I on the other hand, second in line and the daughter, was expected and still am to some extent, to drop everything to meet other people's needs.
Mom is now having a hard time dealing with the fact that her son rarely calls when she is having difficult times. She is angry with him and how selfish he has "become". I kind of think he is exactly the man that she raised.
I think I have to really work on giving myself the same care and concern I give others. I will watch you, Slowly, and learn from your example. (ugh...my latest post on my own thread points up this very issue.)
Hey Maya - No doubt we will all muddle through this hard stuff I saw this quote today, which was kinda apt
Work is either fun or drudgery. It depends on your attitude. I like fun. Colleen C. Barrett
Looking at the revision necessary, a fun approach seems far less painful. My first self directed assignment is on pace - I want to be one of those unhurried women who seem to glide about life with utmost grace. Most days, it seems like I've just taken on toooo many things on my to do list - I forget to have fun, and feel rushed.
So, Slowly's prime directive - to slow down Trust me, I'm much better now than pre-dbing, but I do recognise some backsliding - back to taking on too much. Today, I deleted more than half the things that were on my to do list - they will just have to wait. Re-set expectations with colleagues and friends. What a wonderfully liberating feeling
Another dimension to this 'un-hurriedness' is to script conversations that are likely to be tricky, especially with NG. My appreciation to Jennifer (where are you, Jennifer? we miss ya ) for illustrating the power of scripting. I've tried it, and it works. A slower pace, being perceived as an unhurried lady, will certainly allow for time to script tough chats through in my head.
Slowly, you are the best! It is so wonderful how well you are doing. I love coming here to read your thread because of the wonderful inspiration it gives me. You are truly a shinning star of hope on this BB!
Quote:
Looking at the revision necessary, a fun approach seems far less painful. My first self directed assignment is on pace - I want to be one of those unhurried women who seem to glide about life with utmost grace. Most days, it seems like I've just taken on toooo many things on my to do list - I forget to have fun, and feel rushed.
This is great! One of the things that I feel now is a quote that I keep in my mind. The journey is just as much fun, if not more so, then arriving at your destination. Enjoy the moment and what it gives you. There is very little in life that requires our immediate attention. The list of things to do is good but should not be all encompasing of our lives. We rule the list, the list does not dictate to us!
Quote: So, Slowly's prime directive - to slow down Trust me, I'm much better now than pre-dbing, but I do recognise some backsliding - back to taking on too much. Today, I deleted more than half the things that were on my to do list - they will just have to wait. Re-set expectations with colleagues and friends. What a wonderfully liberating feeling
Outstanding Slowly! Keep that feeling with you and remember it anytime you feel the list starting to control you! You are in complete control of you!
Quote: Another dimension to this 'un-hurriedness' is to script conversations that are likely to be tricky, especially with NG. My appreciation to Jennifer (where are you, Jennifer? we miss ya ) for illustrating the power of scripting. I've tried it, and it works. A slower pace, being perceived as an unhurried lady, will certainly allow for time to script tough chats through in my head.
Well, I use to do this but it really screwed me up. If it works for you, great! For me, when I tried to do this, the convo I would be having usually would take a different turn then what I had scripted for. Usually I would end up bungling the convo. Now, I just go with the flow, have no expectations for the convo, and take it were it goes. This is just what happens to me, scripting my work for you. Just giving you a little insight on what happen to me.
You sitch sounds so promising and things are going so well for you. You are truly a wonderful person, do not let anyone else tell you or make you feel other wise! Good luck and stay focused!
Love Michael
Didn't know what love was, Didn't know what pain does.......
[http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB24&Number=811131&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=link] Background [/url]
Join me on Yahoo messenger - otwistedone
Hey Betsey, Sorry for barging in. I posted a "whatever you call it" and OG_Lou says I should read your stuff on WAW but I'm new to this site and can't find it. I did a search for underdog and found this post. Here's my situation maybe you can direct me? First: My W served papers August 20th after 33 years of marriage and shortly after spinal cord surgery. I'm working in the Midwest staying in a one bedroom apartment while she lives in the $ million house in California. Amazingly, she remembers so much negative from the past; a USC Notre Dame game of 1972 where I got mad at a USC running back but forgets all romantic moments. I've read this is typical. I went to counseling on my own and she did too. After much complaining she agreed to joint counseling and we have for three months but mostly they've been sessions chronicling all my past sins or diatribes of how her life was happy before me. I remember a different story about constant criticism and felling like a second class citizen. She now praises a family upbringing she once detested. I've read both the DB nd DR along with 12 other books. I'm practising what I've read with many mistakes. I find the process rewarding in terms of how much I've learned, taken control of myself, and how well I handle the attacks. However, it's been three months and I see no progress. She still attacks, and I'm running out of gas. Any suggstions? AND: Since I wrote this I completed a mission. It was really enlightening. I strongly recommend it. "Life's Journey." Christmas was tough. We all visited our son. It was a difficult time for me . W has presented herself as the classic victim and me as the villian. Then she invites her parents and sisters with family. Talk about overkill. Then she plays Polly Anna. I gave her a card and present, one she truly coveted and one a joke. For Me? Nothing. I've laid low with no invites to do anything. Family wise my offers to see a movie, an NBA game, dining out all were rejected. I'm feeling down. My counselor says politely excuse yourself and fly home. My thoughts go beyond just leaving today. I'm tired of DB and maybe it's time to realize this is one that doesn't work. Recently I visited "Another Diivorce Busted" catagory and didn't see any success in years. Any one else in this position? Any thoughts? Can you help me find a recent success story about WAW. I'm plain tired! Thanks, TAGIII
Hi Michael and TAGIII - Thanks for stopping by - TAGIII - I wish you courage and patience in dealing with your difficulties.
Something that I still struggle with is detachment - sometimes I'm able to detach consciously, other times, frankly, I've just stumbled into the right response. JJ's recent link to an older post on detachment gave me much food for thought - here is the link to JJ's thread over at Newcomers
I've been through the first part, and find some small pennies dropping into place.
One of the hardest, but most important goals for people close to an individual in recovery to learn, is to detach from the behaviors and continue to love the person. What does detachment mean? It can sound frightening, given that life has revolved around the person--always trying to anticipate what will happen next. Detaching with love is an attitude which is associated with behaviors that are not controlling.
This is particularly true of NG and I - for 22 years, we have been practically fused - I see him unable to detach from my actions for example. But, this is about my detachment, from his actions that I find hurtful.
What does controlling mean? Controlling behavior is the need to have people, places and life with "shoulds" and "ought to be." Not expressing feelings honestly, but with self-centerdness and manipulation of the environment around. Feeling okay if things are the way you want them to be regardless of the needs or desires of others. It is a behavior that comes from fear -- fear of the unknown, of "falling apart" if people and situations are not the way you want them to be. It is a symptom of a family or systems dysfunction.
Ugh. It is only lately that I've come to realise the weight of baggage from a childhood that was far from normal. But, I have been truly lucky in having terrific friends, and a generally positive temperament, and have been able to see my problems clearly, and work towards a better solution. Yeah, I've been a control freak, and in that process, made myself more anxious than I really needed to. The more relaxed Slowly is I believe a more fun to be, and more fun to be with.
As the illness within the betrayer progresses so do the projections: in my case, NG used to say things like 'I'm not taking anything away from you, it is only a narrow relationship I have with her' Statements like this contribute to a derterioration of self-worth with the result being that you believe that you are the key to change this awful mess by controlling your world, and the people in it. You become exhausted, frustrated and resentful. Resentment comes from people not doing what you want them to do --and resentment kills love.
Although the affair is over, NG has not really adressed some of these very hurtful actions or words. I doubt he remembers them. I need to get over them. I also need to stop putting myself in situations that are not of my making, I find myself now able to stop and ask first if something I''m expected to do is what I want to do, and am finding it a little easier to say no politely, not just to NG, but to others who have been in the past invited (alas, by me ) to expect more than I'm honestly comfortable giving.
I must accept that: 1) Depression is an illness 2) I did not cause it 3) I cannot control it 4) I cannot cure it. Detaching from the illness and NG's behaviors allows him to take responsibility for himself-and allows me to be free to feel the love for the individual. When I begin taking care of myself and being responsible for myself, I have the key to peace, serenity, sanity, and really feeling good about who I am. Detaching is not detaching from the person whom we care about, but from the agony of involvement. Detachment is something we must do first! before we can begin to work on ourselves, to live our own lives, feel our own feelings, and solve our own problems until we have detached from the object of our obsession.
In my case, I'm finding some of the tools I need to use are humour, being vague, and sometimes just plain acting as if I know nothing of a problem to avoid getting sucked into becoming more involved than I need to be. This definitely takes time, and requires practice. BUT, it is opening up nicer days for me, where I'm not worrying about solving other people's problems
Loving detachment rocks
Slowly
ps. there is a lot more on the thread JJ started, but I'll need to internalise them, and bite sized chunks makes a lot more sense
Love your posts from JJ's thread. Not sure I read that one. Although might have been a year ago and I just don't remember!
You ROCK!!! You sound so different than when you first started posting. It has definitely been a year of growth.
I was thinking just this morning that most of the people I have followed on this bb sound totally different after being here for awhile and focusing on working on themselves with this wonderful support system we have here!
I looked back over in my mind the wonderful people who have helped me and think there is NO way individual counseling could have helped me make the amount of progress in a year that I have with help on this bb.
Oppsss...I hijacked!
Really you sound AWESOME!
Happy New Year 2005 the year of us!!!!!!!!!!!
Pam
"We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us"
Dear Pam and Maya - It has been a year of growth, indeed. And as painful as it has been, I am grateful for it. I'm also feeling very blessed that there are conversations here that provide wonderful opportunity to continue this growth. Here is the rest of Sue's post, via JJ.
Attachment is becoming overly -involved, sometimes hopelessly entangled. Attachment can take several froms: * we may become excessively worried about, and preoccupied with, a problem or person (our mental energy is attached).
Back in the early days of discovering about ow, it wah ALL I could think of. Ugh. Then I got to obsessing about what NG was thinking, what his next actions would be. Today, I do wonder, sometimes, but the frequency, and duration, is definitely on the wane. Yeah for me
*Or, we may graduate to becoming obsessed with and controlling of the people and problems in our enviroment (our mental, physical, and emotional energy is directed at the object of our obsession).
Oooh yes - the number of times I changed my plans, so that NG would have to be withing my watch etc - sigh - what a waste of time that was - he still did what he wanted, and I just made myself tired and frustrated.
* we may become reactionaries, instead of acting authentically of our own volition (our mental, emotional, and physical energy is attached).
In fact, I think both NG and I were waiting for each other to 'declare' plans on a day to day basis. He still does today, and I still cannot figure out why he is so reluctant to share. For myself, I make plans, and share when asked. Otherwise, mystery rules
* We may become emotionally dependent on the people around us (now were really attached).
For a short while (thankfully only a short while) I was not aware of this dynamic. Thankfully I got over myself
* WE may become caretakers (rescuers, enablers) to the people around us (firmly attaching ourselves to their need for us).
My challenge here is that apart from issues around ow, NG actively wants me to play this role. Weaning off means not just re-training myself, but also him.
Over-involvement of any kind may keep us in a state of chaos.Worrying and obsessing keep us so tangled in our heads we cant solve our problems. Whenever we become attached in these ways to someone or something, we become dtached from ourselves. We lose touch with ourselves. WE forfeit our power and ability to think feel act and take care of ourselves. We lose control.
The most frightening part of all this was how easy it was to lose touch with myself. For a few months, I was in such a quagmire, there was no energy to think clearly. The tools to be able to see through the fog were just not in my arsenal than. It has been a painful lesson, that in any situation (and I do now find myself applying this with work and friends, not just NG) my baseline is 'how do I feel, what do I want to do' - not in a self centred manner, but in a way that helps me establish clarity
Detachment is not a cold hostile withdrawal; a resigned, despairing acceptance of anything life and people throw our way; a robotical walk through life oblivious to and totally unaffected by people and problems. Nor is it a removal of our love and concern. Ideally detachment is releasing or detaching from a person or problem in love. Detachment is based on the premise that each person is responsible for himself, that we can't solve problems that aren't ours to solve, and that worrying doesn't help. Keep our hands off of other peoples responsibilities.
As I would want other people to stay off my problems
Detachment involves present moment living-living in the here and now. We allow life to happen instead of forcing and trying to control it. we relinquish regrets over the past and fears about the future we make the most of each day. Also accepting reality - the facts. Detaching does not mean we dont care. It means we learn to love, care, and be involved without going crazy. We stop creating all this chaos in our minds and enviroments.
Living a balanced life that provides for the future but has sufficient time and energy to enjoy today is really what I'm taking away from all this. Life, every day.
We become free to care and to love in ways that help others and dont hurt ourselves. The rewards of from detachment are great: serenity; a deep sense of peace; the ability to give and receive love in self-enhancing, energizing ways; and the freedom to find real soulutions to our problems. It will become easier with practice.
It does seem to become easier with practice, and the sense of peace is a heady one - I actively crave it, and am willing to put in the effort to have peace in my life.
I am so grateful for your voice on this board. Your generosity and care for the people here were evident to me when I first started reading the BB. I just want you to know that I am hopeful that you and NG will continue to mend and that the "memory stings" will fade...and fade. And that you will continue to inspire and encourage us here on the bb.
My mum has been great, she has accepted that I need to do things my way. I fear NG's habits are those I have been feeding over almost 20 years - my mistaken definition of love - that I should make life easy for him, regardless of what discomfort it causes me. Don't get me wrong, I care for him enough to want to make his life better, but no more at unacceptable cost to myself 
Slowly 
) to expect more than I'm honestly comfortable giving. 
