Guys - You are just the best We had a wonderful dinner, NG was attentive, and I feel cherished. He is on a work related conference call, and here I am.
LnL - you know, I can be a blotch Its one of the things I'm trying to shed, the urge to 'be right' all the time, and justify being less than nice, or kind. Until recently, I had not realised just how much of a child is I'm still carrying around inside me. But, she is growing up.
Maya - Sharing duties and GAL are the areas where I think it has been my expectations of an R that has made me plough the particular trench I was in - NG actually had few expectations, but of course, was not going to object if I chose to do more. Neither was he effusive in his appreciation. I think he saw much of the same dynamics with his mum and sisters - the 'woe is me, having to carry the weight' and NG must have decided early in life that he will not ask for more than he was willing to do himself.
Kelly - I love the idea of planning, and throwing in 'you are awesome' - and NG loves compliments
Jennifer - Have I said that I now script most conversations - and its all due to your inspiring posts For someone I have never met, you have had such a profound impact on how I manage the day to day of my life - thank you !!
Tonight, another piece of our healing journey fell in place. NG is slowly becoming more aware of just what baggage he still carries around from his childhood. He is not yet ready to term it as 'problems' but at least shared with me that he sees how his self esteem issues may have steered him 'wrong'. What else was there for me to do, but validate, and not jump in with conclusions he is not ready for. With every one of these conversations - which tend to happen about once a week - I am feeling more at peace, that my fear this a may have been my fault, really is unfounded. It all helps.
In the meantime, we are living our life. One day at a time. Improving aspects of it slowly. Continuosly.
Tonight, another piece of our healing journey fell in place. NG is slowly becoming more aware of just what baggage he still carries around from his childhood. He is not yet ready to term it as 'problems' but at least shared with me that he sees how his self esteem issues may have steered him 'wrong'. What else was there for me to do, but validate, and not jump in with conclusions he is not ready for. With every one of these conversations - which tend to happen about once a week - I am feeling more at peace, that my fear this a may have been my fault, really is unfounded. It all helps.
This is HUGE, Slowly. Your H is finally taking on his own stuff. discovering the ways in which he was going outside to receive validation than looking within. of course it is great for you to get confirmation that you are not responsible. I think, that NG, who obviously seeks external validation, needs WOA for his efforts in this area.
"NG, I just wanted to tell youthat I have thought about the convo the other night. the insights you shared with me show me how much you are thinking about your own journey. I really admire that. I am also very grateful that you have the COURAGE to share those insights with me. It really is brave."
Can you imagine saying something like this? Would it be helpful?
Great things are happening on your side of the globe.
Quote: What else was there for me to do, but validate, and not jump in with conclusions he is not ready for.
{Clap, clap, clap} This is very good, Slowly, and struck me particularly. It goes well with what Lights was saying in her 1st gigapost on GBO's post. I think we have spent soooo much time dismantling the pieces of the puzzle and putting them back together in a story, replete with 'labels' and storylines & a diagnosis of THEIR lives that we are less open to hearing anything new, or their interpretation of their journey. It is so tempting to jump in with all the 'knowledge' we think we possess about who they are and how they got that way. Listening and validating was the perfect response. You can't know all that NG carries within, and it is for him to search around and reveal what he finds to you, in HIS own time. And I would suspect that if you manage to create that space for him to feel comfortable to do so, you might hear some 'new' things that were not woven into your story of NG. I find myself in a similar situation, with SO just beginning to question some of the fabric of his life. And I must force myself to reach for that duct tape and just listen....
I also agree w/ Maya that some WOA about opening up and courage to talk to you about it might be helpful.
Hi Maya and H2H - Yeah, this is huge, for him, being able to open up, and for me, doing a complete 180 WOA would be good, except NG is like a turtle - he'll stick his head out, and if he things its noticed, he'll scurry back under his shell quickly. Sooo, I need to affirm without it coming across as a big deal, or 'heavy'. I'm sure the moment will present itself.
I'm wrestling with another dilemma at the moment. A few of our credit card and phone bills have gone astray (since June/July, when there was still contact with ow). NG has been promising to get duplicates, and yesterday, some docs fell out of his briefcase, and what d'ya know, the missing statements. So, the lies continue, and that hurts. Guys, how do I tackle this - confront (where would that get me ) or just file them away and move on? Damn, this is hard. Every one of these 'discoveries' just brings back lousy memories.
Ugh! I know this hurts, and I hate lies as much as you do. I forgot where I read it, but some book said "men either lie because he doesn't want to cause you pain or he doesn't want to get into trouble. It's up to you to make it safe for him to tell the truth."
I'll admit to having trouble with that statement. I mean, I 'get it', but I also find it just too easy. But that doesn't help you at the moment...
Sooo, I am of two minds on this one. The "DB me" would say drop it for right now. Given NG's 'turtle' qualities, saying anything will likely send him back into his shell for quite some time. And yet I know that personally I would find it very difficult not to say something about them. It is hard to reach for that duct tape. However, I would also have to say that in all the times I did 'confront' I can't recall any good outcome. Some things are better to discuss when I'm not stinging in pain or anger.
I would bet this will come up at some time in the future, and you will be able to talk about it with less pain, and more honesty about the issue for you. At least give it the 24 hour rule.
Hmmmmm. How did they fall out? Does he know you saw them? Were you snooping? Does that matter?
If you keep asking for these and they are not forthcoming and if he does not know you saw them then one suggestion is that you do something proactive... You read my h's confessional about credit card etc... It is not good for them to be hiding from us and for us to be the mean authority figure..
Can you act as if and have a conversation later, when you are not so peeved and say something like, "I have been thinking about the missing credit card statements. They cover a rather difficult time in our R, I want you to know that if there is anything that makes you uncomfortable, etc...maybe I do not need to see them.,.. or maybe it might be easier for you to hand them over if you know that I view them as HISTORY and do not want to have them interfere on the great things we are doing for our R now."
Something like that. Bottom line is making him feel safe to come clean... then thanking him AND MEANING IT once he has. Nothing on that credit card bill should come between the two of you.....
Oh, Slowly, I'm right here with you on lying... but what H2H and Maya have said about why people lie is really ringing true with me.
I know that when I used to lie to my parents, it was because there was a no win outcome for me. I figured out that I would only do penance if I was caught in the lie. But if I told the truth, the penalty was often beyond harsh.
That being said, do you think he perceives this to be true?
I'm loving what Maya said. I'm thinking that this would also be a 180 for you... or am I wrong?
Sounds like NG is feeling a whole lot of fear. (What is going around with this fear thing anyway?)
Big hugs, my friend.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Ditto to what Maya et al have said. He’s scared, Slowly. Scared to trigger that unhappy period in your mind, scared to confront his own guilt through your eyes once again. I think what Maya suggested might actually make it safe for him to share this. And I’d do it on a day and hour when YOU are feeling really secure about the relationship. That’ll transmit to his little antennas.
Hang in there. You’ve gotten soooo good at this I’m continually in awe.
Understanding comes in layers, that's for sure. Pen, you are so right, he is utterly petrified that I'll get sad, upset.
Quote: And I’d do it on a day and hour when YOU are feeling really secure about the relationship. That’ll transmit to his little antennas.
Pen - this is so true. I know I'm not ready. In my mind, I think I want the answers, but in my heart, I know I'm not ready. So, I'm going to wait. Lately, I've become a true believer in the notion that we know when the time is right - we just need to be patient with ourselves.
Slowly, I'm with you about the lying. It's like you think you've just taken two steps forward and then along comes one of their lies and it sets you back 10 steps. I agree with the other advice to just sit on it for now. When my H left the first time in August and came back a week later, he said that he had ended his EA and would not be contacting her and he told her so. What he didnt' know was that the cell phone details all calls placed and received. Hey, he wanted me to do all the bills and financial things. It's not my fault if he didn't look at the bills. On a couple occasions I would ask if he had talked to the OW at all and he said "absolutely not, I ended that". I had my proof that this was a lie but didn't not bring it up until I knew I would benefit from bringing it up. After he left again and said that he would not be seeing this OW still, I received his trip tik from AAA with directions to her. I never gave it to him and still have not even told him that I received it. Just wait for a time when you know it's, as DR says, when you know you will get a better response. Duct tape is right! Put on two pieces, just in case for now!
We had a wonderful dinner, NG was attentive, and I feel cherished. He is on a work related conference call, and here I am. 
Its one of the things I'm trying to shed, the urge to 'be right' all the time, and justify being less than nice, or kind. Until recently, I had not realised just how much of a child is I'm still carrying around inside me. But, she is growing up.
For someone I have never met, you have had such a profound impact on how I manage the day to day of my life - thank you !!
Slowly 
) or just file them away and move on? Damn, this is hard. Every one of these 'discoveries' just brings back lousy memories. 
Slowly 
