Porn is very demeaning to the female. So many vulgar acts that can only be impressive to the dominate male type, and I mean dominance not high drive/desire. Someone on this board had a gal that went all society on 'em similar to your wife, or maybe it was a clearifying post in this thread that I'm remembering.
That type of porn as most available on the net is directed to that domineering type of male. (Or the testosterone raging teen) That and some woman's studies classes could have tainted her.
I think you are accomplished in your work/studies/learning. What does she do? You've probably said this some time ago but a Recap may help some of us.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I don't know, Jenny. The more I listen to her drivel (we had yet another talk on the way home from T-giving), the more I think it is just her latest reason to avoid sex. In other words, she's not really too tired; she's not really too itchy; she's not really mad at me; she's not really a man-hater; she's not really too fat; she's not really believing that sex is evil. She's just afraid to get close to me because of abandonment issues/childhood fears, etc.
I'm starting to put some stuff together. Don't know if I mentioned this earlier or not. Her parents divorced when she was about 8. She lived with her dad, who immediately married a woman and moved her away from her home state of Illinois. The step-mom made her call her "mom." Dad was emotionally abusive - as in "how could you be so stupid." She told her mom she wanted to move back with her, and, at about age 13, she did. Mom then left W with grandparents so she could go to nursing school. So, she was basically, at one time or another, abandoned (either emotionally or practically), by both parents.
Now, here comes Hairdog who has stuck with her for 5 years now, (with most of the last 3.5 with little or no sex) and he hasn't left her. She withholds sex from him, like some sort of test of his patience . . . or of his love for her. It's as if she wants me to get out of here just so she can prove that she's unloveable. It's just sad.
So....during our "talk" this weekend, I told her that I wasn't willing to stick around forever in a sex-less marriage. Although I'm sure I've told her that before, maybe I never actually said the WORDS. Either that, or she finally heard me. She said, "I didn't think you were the kind of person who would leave me over something like sex. If that's the kind of person you are, you might as well leave right now." I said, "I said I didn't know if I would be able to stick around forever if things didn't change. I'm willing to continue to work on this marriage, which, as a whole is good. I just hope you will decide to make an effort, too."
She, of course, said that she has made and continues to make an effort, but can't promise that anything will change in the sex arena.
She said a lot of things on the "evil sex drive of men," too, and I just kept on saying that it really had no relevance to our marriage. I also refused to agree in any way to her ideas. That frustrated the hell out of her.
One thing that kept coming up was her loss of trust in me. She bases this on some things I've mentioned before, a couple of financial problems which I kept from her (nothing like strip club addictions, but rather, keeping our tight financial situation from her in hopes that I could fix it before she found out); a stupid move on my part when I started smoking again and kept it a secret from her, including actually lying to her when she asked me directly; and that's about it. All these "trust issues" happened over a year and a half ago.
Meanwhile, I told her that I had forgiven her for her threat to call 911 and report me as an abuser when I refused to get out of "her" bed one night. She says the difference is that she was drunk and angry when she did this, as opposed to me being cool and sober when I "lied" to her.
She said that until she feels like she can trust me again she doesn't want to ML with me. She doesn't know when that will be.
I think "lack of trust" is yet another reason to throw on to her pile of reasons not to ML. I really think that a year and a half of penance for the relatively minor sins is enough and she's over-doing it.
As I told her, I'm not willing to stick around forever.
Liese: Remember, it was her who showed me the porn site which came up accidentally when she typed a URL wrong. I'm not a porn-surfer.
My W was a professor at a University and then moved to my city and opened up a law practice after we adopted our daughter. Prior to that we had a commuter marriage. Her practice is successful although she misses her old job and old city. I have told her many times how much I appreciate her being here and moving here.
{{{ The more I listen to her drivel (we had yet another talk on the way home from T-giving), the more I think it is just her latest reason to avoid sex. In other words, she's not really too tired; she's not really too itchy; she's not really mad at me; she's not really a man-hater; she's not really too fat; she's not really believing that sex is evil. She's just afraid to get close to me because of abandonment issues/childhood }}}
HairDog, It sounds like you could fix everyting and your W will still find things to not have sex with you.. Like, the "door knob" story I read some where onthe BB. The W used the excuse she did not like the doorknob on the bedroom door, it was killing her sex drive.
Ask your W for her 30 day plan. What would have to happen if she had 30 days to prepare to be sexual again. Kind of like perparing for a race. You have 30 days to get in shape before the 5K run.
{{{ She's just afraid to get close }}} She was close, what happened to what you once had? Mental illness?
OG Lou, Boy, some onions have a lot of nasty layers to peel.
I didnt mean to convey that you were surfing. I'm suggesting that with the "Virgina Monologues" and such and an encounter with porn to validate the trash the VM expouse, that may be the difficulty. She just may have gone too politically correct. Maybe?
Or is it simply a case of an attorney in a guys field hitting the glass ceiling and bringing home the resentment?
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Aw Hairdog, I really feel for you. The more I think about your sitch, the less I think this is really about sex. I think your W is really mad at you. I don't think you appreciating her moving is anywhere near enough, I think it was too big a thing for her to do, and that she now regrets it.
I don't think this is about sex. It's deeper and bigger. I hope I am dead wrong.
Hairy, I had a conversation with SIL the other day in which she flatly stated, I am just not a sexual person. I never will be.
Nowwwwwwww, I really wanted to call her on this. She obviously WAS a sexual person at one time or she never would have found herself married, imo. What man would jump on that wagon after a declaration like that? "You're not a sexual person and never will be? Whoo hoo! Let's get hitched.."
As we were talking, I tried to validate what she was saying (which was hard) but in the end I just felt sorry for her. I could see the angst and confusion in her eyes as she was telling me this. Now if she was a single person telling me these words, I would have said More power to ya, whatever floats your boat, etc. The fact that she is married to an HD guy complicates matters. So as she's telling me this revelation about herself, I could see that she very much wanted that to be the final say on things but knowing that they weren't.
I see your wife in a similar position. I agree with you that being a trustworthy and outstanding H will do little to restore her sex drive. Because, right now, she doesn't WANT it restored. I also believe she has no idea why not. So instead of scrutinizing herself and finding out what areas she can change, she is lashing out at you to cover it up. How very sad.
My SIL will probably never be a sex fiend but she could surely come to a place where she ceased detesting her husband and started enjoying sex.
I wish you luck Harry.
P.S. What does she say in answer to this question: "If you hated sex so much, then why were you the one to initiate it first in our relationship?"
I keep thinking about Mrs H-dog, and I can't shake my hunch that this is not just about sex. Would she consider some individual counseling? (not along the lines of that she is "broken"... but there is clearly an issue here, and it is affecting her, her marriage.) As much as it's affecting you, H-dog, I suspect that she is just as miserable.
Quote: What does she say in answer to this question: "If you hated sex so much, then why were you the one to initiate it first in our relationship?"
HP, I think she would say either that, as Michele says, there is a lot of female testosterone floating around at the beginning of a relationship and that the beginning of a relationship is never a forecast as to how the rest of it will go; or she would say that I started with a clean slate and then I later gave her reason to distrust me (I know, trust a stranger before you trust your H?). She also might say that she has come to learn revelations about the evils of men's sex drives, or some other such drivel.
As 2nd chances says, there is more here than just sex. Yes, she has some problems deep down that make intimacy uncomfortable for her and she is not willing to directly address them. It may take me moving out of the bedroom, or the house, or the marriage to make her do something. Or, perhaps more likely, she never will address them.
Although I am forced to deal with her attitudes and aversions now, because I love her and married her, I can choose to not deal with it for the rest of my life. I hope she comes to a different set of revelations before it comes to that.
