Ms. H-dog: a peek inside her mind

[honeypot]

Hairy,
This is a load of horsesh*t, I'm sorry.

I don't even think SHE believes what she is saying..or, rather, she believes what she's saying but she knows it's completely full of holes.

The Bad Day scenario....in what way does it promote dangerous behavior and irrationality?

Look, sometimes my days go badly (no REALLY they do!! ha ha) and yet my D2 can come up to me and throw her little arms around my neck and say I love you Mama, while she pats my back and, oh, Hairy she just takes it all away! I'm certain that your wife must have had moments like this with D3, am I right? WHAT is the difference here?
One person is taking refuge in another's body and wallowing in the love that is there. What's not to like about that!
Taking refuge in each other is part of the human condition, as is sex. She is waving up a huge smokescreen and hoping that no one notices that she's fulla baloney. And the high sex drive comment...well sure she feels aroused at times, she IS human! But, like my H, she prides herself on being able to subvert that drive and take that energy and pour it into something else. Well, good for her. You are not built that way. Can't SHE accept the differences? Why does she bid for you to accept her the way she is, all the while trying to neuter you?

And I really detest the way she tries to bait you. She pulls up a porn site on accident and then gets YOU in there to see it, wanting so badly for you to get turned on so that she can profess her disgust for what an animal you are. You were smart and didn't take the bait but she was already worked up and started a fight anyway.

I think her world must be very lonely if she never takes refuge in another and handles all her triumphs and heartaches with no human touch.

[chocolateeyes]

She spouted some more societal stuff, how sex has caused men to humiliate women, mutilate them, sometimes kill them. How Islamic women have to cover their bodies so that they are not seen as evil temptresses. How women don’t have the same type of drive. How she is dealing with this disdain for sex – trying to reconcile her global/societal view with trying to make me happy and ML with me.

What a load o' crap.

OK, so logically,

1. "Husband A" is a member of "Group H".

2. Group H has treated women ("Group W") badly in the past, and perhaps still does (arguable, but let's assume it's true).

3. "Wife B" is a member of Group W.

4. Husband A does not treat Wife B in this way. (Given)

5. Wife B acknowledges that Husband A does not treat her in this way. (Corollary to the Given)

6. Husband A tells Wife B that he needs affection and sex in order to be fully happy in his marriage. (Given)

Therefore,

Wife B not only doesn't do it, but also doesn't try -- or even want to talk about it -- because of #1, 2 and 3 above.

She's a lawyer? She needs to see what a load o' crap that argument is.

Choc., who's not a lawyer, but always wanted to play one on TV, cuz they get all the hot babes.

[NOPkins]

HD said:
-------------
.... it’s just so damn cold in that bedroom . . . in more ways than one.
-------------

I understand, but she needs to see you comfortable with your sexuality. Wanting to be naked with your lover and have sex with them is normal, not abnormal. The desire to be together and mate is why we have survived on this planet. That isn't animalistic, it is immutably practical.

I hope that she is choosing to involve herself in these beliefs out of rebelliousness, and not because she is having spiritual level epiphanies. Again, you will have to determine which is true.

If it is rebelliousness, then she has some big issues with you that you are going to have to address.

No matter what you believe the core problems are at this point, the race has started, even if you tripped out of the gate.

So, what is your plan to recover your marriage?

-NOPkins-

[annette]

Have to agree with HP here. I think your wife is a load of crap.

I don't suppose she would consider C, would she? Not that I am an expert or anything, but sounds to me like she so dislikes ALL men and isn't making any exceptions where you are concerned.

Annette

[Lillieperl]

Karen said

I feel as if all of us are looking for life with all the adjectives and our parnters can only cope with the noun. They want a marriage. We want a loving, juicy, sexy, fabulous marriage. They want a husband or wife or partner but they are afraid of the fullness of what each gender brings to the table. A toast to the hedonists we are!

This is absolutely true! I've often conveyed this message to BF. He's starving in the midst of plenty. Karen, have you looked into the book Sexual Anorexia by Patrick Carnes? BTW, Karen, YOU are my soulmate!

Honey said

But, like my H, [Mrs Hairy] prides herself on being able to subvert that drive and take that energy and pour it into something else.

Also right on the money!! What's up with these people? Why does it feel bad to them to feel good? (Rhetorical question. )

Honey also said

And I really detest the way she tries to bait you. She pulls up a porn site on accident and then gets YOU in there to see it, wanting so badly for you to get turned on so that she can profess her disgust for what an animal you are.

Again right on! And this makes me see RED!! Why is she so cruel to you??? My God, if you said that kind of stuff to her, she'd erupt like a volcano!

What if you told her, "Knowing you feel that way, I'm outta here." Is that what she's trying to get you to say?

Lil, fuming, snorting and stamping her feet!!

[lettie]

I agree with annette...she is so determined to believe this, no matter what this is going to be her opinion. Sex, in a very intimate way, is the physical form of love. It just is, that is a fact. And if I happen to come across seeing two people having sex on tv or anywhere else, well, for me it is terribly arousing...I guess that is just the way I was made? And I am glad! How she can say that sex has nothing with love is just ignorant...sex can come in many forms, but for two people who love each other, it is one of the most important parts of a healthy and wonderful R.

[MrsNOP]

Hairy,
This is a load of horsesh*t, I'm sorry.

I think we have consensus, my phrase was "load of f-ing horsesh*t".

I don't think I have anything positive to add toward a solution and I don't mean this as a slam at MrsHD, but I equate her argument as academically/logically equivalent to "Eat your peas, there are starving children in China."

And as to the irrationality of having a sucky day only to be able to receive and enjoy a sliver of personal happiness via making love to your spouse, this is what I have to say:

Participating in the grand fishbowl of life amongst the general public often sucks. There is *nothing* irrational about having a relationship that is a bastion of peace amidst the turmoil. H*ll, my *dog* can make me happy after a difficult day by running to see me, wagging his tail and begging for an ear scritch or two.

And if we want to deconstruct the areas of societal/cultural impact on male sexual drives vs. love, I expect that those good old maternal instincts are going to have to come under the same deconstruction laser?

Sigh. I really do get offended on behalf of the male gender for the bullsh*t that is thrown at them in the guise of feministic advancement.

MrsNOP -

[karen1]

Wow - what alot of very insightful responses from everyone.

Struck me funny Mrs. NOP - sometimes I think I am that dog.

HD - I think a C would be a good idea. Mrs HD is hiding behind a flurry of crap. Even she can't really buy all this hooey. I'm not even sure that the thing she is hiding from is the sex itself - I think she is telling you that. She doesn't even sound vexed at you. She is arguing with herself.

Karen

PS Lil and HP - I often feel that I have written or thought exactly what you have written. Being the HD W feels like such a charicarature when all we're really asking for is some nookie a few times per week.

[Bube]

Mrs. HD is looking at the facts, forming an absolutely correct conclusion, and then twisting that conclusion into something completely misleading.

Fact: sex does not require love.
Fact: love does not require sex.
Conclusion: There's no relationship between the two.

The facts are indisputable. Sex without love is all too common. Love without sex obviously exists – just read the posts right here on this forum. Given those facts, it’s quite correct to conclude that there is no requirement for a relationship between the two. Saying that the two are unrelated is an attempt to disguise her trying to get you to make the leap from “no requirement for a relationship” to “there can never be a relationship”. This is pressing an agenda (big shock there) instead looking for truth. Truth would require more than just objectively provable facts.

Fact: sex does not require love.
Widely held opinion: sex is much better with love.
Fact: love does not require sex.
Widely held opinion: sex enhances marital/romantic love.
Conclusion: While there is no requirement for a confluence of the two, both love and sex are enhanced when they occur together.

Gasoline does not require a car. Likewise, a car does not require gasoline. But unless you put the two together, you’re not going to go anywhere.

Wildebube

[chocolateeyes]

Wildebube,

Thanks for reducing to simple logic MUCH better than my hair-brained attempt. Looking back on my post now, I think I was stuck somewhere hopelessly between my sophomore Logic 101 class, and the Geometry II proofs that I mostly slept thru...

Choc., who believes strongly that there is NO Transitive Property of Sex, which would state "If A wants to hump B, and B wants to hump C, then A wants to hump C."