HP, from a gal's point of view, congratulations! You laid EVERYTHING on the line. From my history, I can only be envious for I chose the other sublime route, which did me NOTHING!
Is an OPEN MARRIAGE really an option? Might you be able to soften things a bit by saying something like "given a degree of attention, i'll likely quiet some over time".
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
{{{HP}}} The only thing I can say in his defense is that it wasn't his fault he didn't notice that you could fit in the jeans . . . I probably wouldn't have, either, and you know what a horn dog I am.
And I think you should have blown a gasket when he suggested the boyfriend. The next time my W suggests this (or getting a prostitute, both of which she has suggested), I will simply tell her, "if that's your solution to our problem, I have no doubt that there will be plenty of time for me to get a girlfriend after our marriage is over."
The deal is: we are stuck with mis-matches. Why is it that they don't want to work on meeting somewhere in the middle?
Saturday night: This is when we really hit pay dirt with our communication. H spent about an hour, maybe more, trying to get me to have sex with him that night. I had NO desire to do this with him but he was insistent. I asked him if he thought that ML would magically solve everything and I would go back to being my cheery self. He said it usually helps. I finally gave in and it was okay. He was VERY rushed and I finally asked what was going on..? He said, "I feel so NERVOUS. I don't know what to do." He was totally lost without me acting horny and desirous of him.
Afterwards, I said to him that I still felt depressed. We then launched into one of the most interesting conversations of our married life. It was very Catholic in nature, since I was conversing with my H after all!, but it was good.
He asked if I was depressed because I was sitting there thinking, Oh boy now I have to wait another 4-5 days before any further action. I said no not really, although sometimes I do think that. I feel depressed because nothing's really changed. We will do good for a week or so, but then I will have to get angry again in order to snap things back into action. H, do you realize how much I detest having to do this? How much I dislike mySELF for doing it at all?
Then I went back to the comment from Wednesday morning...the 'there there, you had your orgasm' one. (ha ha, don't women ALWAYS go back to what they are feeling resentful over?) I told him that it is NOT the orgasm that I am after. Ok, I admitted that sometimes I just want the O, but the vast majority of the time I just want HIM.
(((HP))) I'm reading but not commenting because I find the whole story interesting & depressing. I know that there's nothing you can do besides talking to your H and letting him know who you are, how you feel, etc. I can identify with your worries/problems/issues because I face a lot of the same ones.
My W is one of those women that you mentioned (sink their entire lives into the kids), so there's nothing left at the end of the day for me... me, who could have sex every day, like you. How do I change this? I'm at a loss.
Sorry, had a visitor and had to cut this gripping (lol) story short.
Chris, I have a nice life with my girls as it is; I just do all of the activities during the day. There are NO activities during the evening, so that we can spend time together as a family and, later, as husband and wife. I realize this will begin to change as my kids get older, but that is the current setup. Hairy, I felt strangely calm when he mentioned a boyfriend. I knew he was being ridiculous and just let him carry on about it. He came to me later and offered a sincere apology about it, also. He felt really bad about saying that, as he should have.
So back to the conversation. Where was I.... I was telling him that, while I love the physical sensations of orgasm, that is not what drives me towards him. It is the whole enchilada of HIM, the LOVE, the physical FEELINGS, etc. I was quite intrigued by a post of Corri's a week or so ago in which she wanted her H to only come to her if he was truly horny. At first I thought, Well how does she know if he is or not? But then I gave it some thought and decided to pay close attention to my own physical desires. Turns out that there are lots of times that I want sex with him but do not feel actually horny. The horniness starts to build afterwards. BUT, I still want sex with him because this is how I process love and closeness. So sometimes I feel horny for an O, sometimes I just want him close, sometimes it's both. So I told him that, as best as I could explain it and ended by saying this: "I will seek you out after 3 or so days of no sex because I start to feel lonely." MrHP: ( shocked) You feel LONELY if you don't have sex?? HP: Uh, yeah. Why does that surprise you? MrHP: I always thought it was that you were horny and needed release. HP: Well, that's it some of the time. But I always feel lonely if we don't have sex. Just other times it is accompanied by physical pangs, too. MrHP: Wow........
Then we got started on a conversation on what marriage means, both in practical and spiritual terms. I told him that lately I had been really praying for an answer as to how to proceed. I hated getting mad all the time and yet I haven't been successful at stopping that behavior. His suggestion was to use the sacraments to strengthen my resolve. (this is where I might lose the non-Catholics:) One of the sacraments is confession and I told him that I felt stupid a lot of the time for repeatedly confessing the same thing: "I become so focused on sex that I overlook, or intentionally ignore, all of my husband's good qualities." He was astounded, folks! He said, "You confess that? I mean..you...it must be...my GOSH! I've been missing it! If this is something you pray about and confess, well, that tells me alot about how important it is to you."
Then a minute of quiet and finally this: "I have been neglecting one of your basic needs and then wondering why you were upset."
It felt so good to be validated like that! I didn't think I'd ever get it from my H. I'm sure he still doesn't understand how I could feel like that, but it really doesn't matter. The point is that he knows that I feel this way and that it is real.
So where does that leave us?
I am in a very curious place today. Historically, I would feel very down (and hostile) in periods of no sex. Then we'd have sex and I'd feel suddenly optimistic and happy. You all know the drill.
Now? I feel happy but not optimistic. I feel cheerful but not fulfilled. I know that in a week or so we will be right back in the same spot. Yeah, he GETS it now but I don't know that he is ready to change. I don't know that he's not but I guess what I am saying is that I have not one shred of hope this time. I am past that point. Yet, I don't feel depressed. I am in a place of...I don't know what! I can't go back to the wild up and downs and yet I don't feel ready for either acceptance of the status quo, or giving up entirely.
I did ask him to go to the doctor and have his testosterone checked and, to my utter surprise, he agreed. Coulda knocked me over with a feather. My H is a very masculine person in demeanor and personality so I figured he'd holler No Way! to that one. But he didn't and I am well aware that he would do this only out of love for me.
One thing that he asked of me (and that I need to add to my list of goals) is to initiate more frequently. He requested 50% of the time. I think I can do that. He actually wanted me to do it all the time professing that he is terrible at it, but I nixed that right away. First of all, he is quite good at initiating when he does it, and secondly I told him that it does nothing for my need of feeling desired if he will agree to have sex whenever I want it, as long as I initiate. Where in that plan do I get to feel the desire from him? But I do need to step up my efforts in this arena. I admit that I have been holding back...waiting for him to do it so that I can know whether he desires me or not. This is not fair. I will say this, though--he is a hard person to initiate with. Either he is asleep or he is giving off 'get the hell away' signals. If he is not doing either of those things, he is initiating himself! I am nothing, though, if not persistent and creative and I have already formulated how I will go about this. I will get him early in the day and ask for what I want in a nice way.
Oh and Hairy, I didn't really expect him to notice what I was wearing. I realize that no man would be able to tell the difference between maternity jeans and regular jeans. I did, however, feel a great need for a "you look nice" since I really DID make an effort to look nice and it was, after all, our anniversary. Then that evening when I took a bubble bath and he joined me and talked to me for a good 45 minutes with nary a sign of noticing the naked lady in front of him...well, I started to get agitated. I did ask him about that and he just sighed and said, I know you want me to notice you in a sexual way when you are naked in front of me and all I can say is sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. I don't know why that is.
So........that is where I am at today. Not much has actually changed but there was a few lightbulb moments for the both of us.
Quote: "You confess that? I mean..you...it must be...my GOSH! I've been missing it! If this is something you pray about and confess, well, that tells me alot about how important it is to you."
Sigh. "No, you idiot, I just make both of our lives hell complaining about it because it's NOT important to me."
Okay, so I've wondered if he had a pulse before, does he exhibit any sign of brainwave activity?
Sorry...just not very patient with LD spouses today.
I bet that this is the conversation that turns the tide for you two. That doesn't mean no bumps ahead, but a real change has occurred.
I think he really did "get it" this time.
Now the real joy, frustration and week long arguments can start!
:-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Good luck - I hope Mr. HP really did get it this time like NOP said. Unfortunately, there have been many times when I was convinced that W finally got it. Things would get better for a week or two then fall back into the old pattern.
