Barn, You will laugh at this but I'm gonna DO THIS. Not that he will cooperate with it, he won't, but just so that I don't have to hear him profess to not know what I'm after. Then I can just say go look in the (chock full) box of notecards.
He would get a kick out of it. But then he would throw them all away! No joke.
Oh and I was laughing at #'s 1 and 2. He does no sexual behavior at all while the kids are awake. That's why the last 2 wks have been so enjoyable and unusual--he would make comments or do things while they were awake to add to the sense of anticipation. It was delightful! (before anyone turns me into DFS, the overtures were so slight that they probably do worse on the Disney Channel...it was NOTHING that my kids could not have seen or heard)
#3 he would say that he would LOVE to do, cannot WAIT to do it, and then........................he just never would. If I asked him about it, he'd get all hot and bothered again but would still have no reason why he didn't do it. Oh, wait I forgot, he'd use the old Kids standby. He would, however, have a snack that night once we were safely in bed. (with the door open, making all kinds of racket and within 4 feet of our girls' door. WHAT would it matter if we were on the couch you say? who knows.)
#4 He would do this one, but he'd make a joke out of it and would refuse to be serious, due to his own insecurities.
#5 Boy it DID get hot in here, you're right! Anyway, he'd say the same as above. Would LOVE to do it, can't WAIT to do it and then.......it'd never happen.
If I made all the kiddie arrangements, lit the damn candles, turned on the music and told him to get to bed, he'd do it, and he might even be excited by the lingerie provided it was nothing he'd never seen before and wasn't too raunchy.
Honestly he doesn't see the difference between the two scenarios--him doing it and inviting me and surprising me, or me arranging it and we do it. To him, we're doing the same things.
But, like I said, I love this idea! I realize it is somewhat passive aggressive of me to want to do this, knowing that he won't do any of them and will let it sit and collect dust, but at least he won't be able to say that I'm not willing to "help" him out.
Mike, here's the problem. I think my husband wants to be pursued and "talked into" making love, much in the same way a lot of women do. He needs the emotional connection to even be able to THINK about making love. Even then it is no guarantee. Sucks.
Oh well, I'm doing it and I'd be in touch if you'd ever start a new thread!
honeypot, Reading your posts feels just like reading my own feelings. I too get little or no affection or admiration. A lot of the time I get treated with derision by W who is far too serious and stuffy for my light hearted ways. I don't really feel loved and yet I give out so much. I think that your H and my W suffer from the same condition. They are just not loving people. I (like you) have love coursing through me at all times. Even if I wanted to be free of it I couldn't stop it. W has momentary instances of it such as when she is interacting with one of the children but for the most part her mind if full of worry and strife. It's just the way she is and I suspect so is your hub. I have an idea for you. It is not easy and you have to try it for a longish time to get noticed but I have had some success with it. Your behaviour seems to me to be just a little bit too desperate and needy. What if you were to back off a little to perhaps only make suggestions twice a week. Withhold some of your affection - especially things that don't add "value". What I mean is, when you feel an urge coming on to do something for him, hold back and think "Will this add value". Don't give him that impromptu cuddle or ILY that he doesn't deserve. Don't give him the paper and suggest he puts his feet up. Don't make him a coffee. Realize that what is making you do these things is the love inside you - not the love coming from him to you. Although you imagine that he will be happy to get more "space" in fact we are all creatures of habit and don't like change. The change in your behaviour will unnerve him slightly and he will probably miss the little things you do for him. Hopefully he may increase the attention he gives you to get some of it back. It does seem to work for me. Finally, use some of your love for YOU because believe me, you are a very lovable and desirable woman. SD xx
The only thing I could come up with was to give subtle signs of desire to him, in order to jolt him out of his stupor. Did I mention I hate this?? If we had a normal, functioning sexual relationship I'd do it every day, every chance I got. However...the knowledge that I am having to do it to remind him to fake desire for me, well, that's just puke yuck and blech. I don't want to have to remind him to desire me!!!!!!!!!!! Wtf is the matter with him?
That is just how I feel. Your H is EXACTLY like mine as far as responding to sexual cues. He has sent me two cards in the last month with sexual innuendo and yet, NO SEX....No follow up fondling even... I just want to say that I echo your frustration in having a wonderful hubby who just doesn't "get it" in this department.
I think that is the LD talkning because my W can innuendo<sp> all day long. Get me all hot and bothered and then not follow through with it. My wife could use a set of card very similar to your husbands. I think I would get that same reaction. Wow these are funny. Then they would go in the garbage or sit on a shelf collecting dust. Never to be used.
My H wants me to come on to him to turn him on and then we will ML. He does not recognize my more subtle efforts, and requires it to be very blunt and obvious. For instance last weekend, my back was hurting. (it has hurt since the birth of my 6 wk old daughter) So I stretched out on top of our cushioned ottoman, with my stomach lying flat, and knees on the floor. I had on a short robe with nothing underneath. I invited him to come and sit directly behind me to tend to the baby, and I could relax. We watched tv like this for a while and then went to bed. While I didn't do it solely to turn him on or seduce him, I did have it somewhat in mind, sortof a kill two birds with one stone maneuver.. It did nothing for him and he didn't even notice. Oh well, I thought. We went to bed and I tried again. Still, nothing. It seems that he doesn't see me as a sexual creature unless he is already thinking about sex, all on his own.
Seduction, to him, is a blatant thing. That doesn't really appeal to me.
Here's why: The fact that I have to be so obvious turns me off. I start to think bad thoughts about him (I won't elaborate but they are not flattering to H) and I don't want to do that.
It would work about 2/3 of the time. Many on this board might say to go for it and shut the hell up. But it would be at a high cost because I'd totally lose respect for my husband.
He must step up to the plate. I will meet him halfway but I'm not going to give him a free ride for the rest of his life. I'm tired of hauling us both along the Sex Highway. He was willing to do a little work on himself the last couple weeks, so I know he is capable of it.
Also, I feel badly that I am so punishing. Here he was making some strides and backslid a ways and I am at the point that I cannot stop having escape fantasies. What's up with that? Why can't I just remind him to get back on track and go on with life? He would have gladly gotten back on track.
I guess I have just been here too many times. He has made tiny strides, I'm happy, he backslides as soon as I appear content with our sex life and then we are back at square one. How many times do we have to repeat this ridiculous cycle?
Do I have to be a bitch forever in order to keep him 'in line'?
I need you to notice, desire, and appreciate me, in the way that *I* need to be noticed, desired and appreciated, not the way YOU THINK I need to be noticed, desired and appreciated."
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Amen. I used think I needed all of that because I perceived some lack in myself. And when it comes from that place of feeling unloved (and thinking the unflattering thoughts about H) then it is because of that. However, I have come to realize that I need the appreciation, sexual desire from my H etc...because I really do think that I deserve it. I am now trying to talk to him from that place rather than the more pathetic place that I come from sometimes.
I feel another talk coming on. I have been in Friend Mode all week long and H is crumbling. I am not doing it purposely, or to try and elicit a certain response from him I SWEAR, I just do not have it in me to do anymore. I am disappointed and I need time to lick my wounds and then I'll be ready to deal with his sh*t again.
It's hard, too, cause by now he is horny and will gladly hang all over me, thinking that it sounds pretty good and will get me 'happy' again. What sucks is that he is probably right!
But I do not get this VIP treatment unless I'm pissed off at him. Otherwise he just rolls along and does not think of sex. I am at the point today where I am asking myself repeatedly, Can I live my life with a man who does not think of sex?
The stakes are pretty high to just say, No way! He and the kids are, quite literally, my whole life at this point. I am a very content and happy person with my current station in life. I want to look back on these days with fondness.
More thoughts bubbling around in my brain.....
It just occurred to me that H is breaking a bad habit. To do that, he will need...what?...six weeks I think the experts say?...in which to fully break the habit and form a new one. Am I expecting too much to think that two weeks of him making an effort is enough to be 'cured', so to speak?
Should I have been encouraging him along at the first sign of backsliding? Should I make comments along the lines of "you were doing so good, let's keep it going!" Man, I really do NOT want to be a coach, I want to be a partner, but I am willing to do this if it would help. Look, I WANT my husband to succeed. I don't particularly care for the way things are right now. But I have my own integrity to think about too and I don't want to cross the line between helping him and totally selling myself out, causing resentment.
It irks me to think that I have to remind or coach him to be sexual with me. I'm his WIFE for petes sakes.
And......I'd like him to open his frickin eyes and SEE me. To not block me out cause he's not feeling sexual. Is he so dense that he honestly doesn't realize when I'm making a bid for attention? LD people feel free to chime in on that one. If you really do not notice, I can deal with that. If it is done because he's not "in the mood" that will sting. I would NEVER reject him in that way.
Man, thoughts are zinging around like crazy today. I wish I had the balls to blatantly seduce him all the time. My fear is this: If he doesn't notice or care about the small seductions, and it crushes me, how much more will it hurt when he does it on a big one? Folks, he WILL do that. Do I have enough HOM-icity to handle this? (see Andy you are not the only one with five dollar words:)
However, even I admit that with that approach I'd be successful more often than not (probably much more often) and would get to see his desire, hopefully.
Gotta stop drinking coffee and get back to more simpler tasks, such as making Santa pictures with cotton ball beards. That won't get my mind so riled up.
Thanks for your words, NOP. I'll let you know what H has to say.
P.S. Please tell the missus that I used one of her lines on H last weekend and it was quite effective. She's a smart one!
Ooh Karen, that's good too. I'll let you know what he says to that one. Actually I already know: "Yes you DO deserve it. You deserve far better than me." etc etc ad nauseum.
Still, I'm gonna say it. I do not feel pathetic or needy; I just know what I want and I am not willing to settle for dragging someone along with me--I want him upfront with me, enjoying the ride.
