Wow a lot has been going on in the last 2 weeks for you. It sounds like you and your W are having some very positive gains in your R. It's nice to see someone's sitch improve even. It's also nice to read that your W listened to your advice regarding her M. The backslides are going to happen so I hope you didn't get too down on yourself about them happening. Just wanted to check in. Again glad to see that things seem to be improving.
Thanx Mark. It is important to celebrate even the littlest progress. It has taken me a lot of prayer and dedication to being the husband and father I want to be to survive a lot of backlash from W.
W bought a microwave - even though we agreed to shop for a good model. She called me at work to tell me, and I looked up the model on internet - and found only bad reviews. W was upset at first, so I dropped the subject.
When I got home we looked at it togther and agreed it was too small and the door stuck out too far (W bought it based on the asthetics of the door covering the program buttons), but I suspect W is still harboring some resentment that I think she did not make a good decision, even though she agrees it was not a good choice.
Sat. we went to the family friend's house for dinner - kids ended up spending the night. I went home about 11:30 and W ended up talking with friend's W all night. Everyone slept in and missed church - I took boys to a wrestling tournament, and W ended up going back to friends house and talking most of the afternoon. When boys and I got home about dinner time, W as absolutely miserable and angry. Turns out she found out someone was talking about her where the family friend H (FFH) works. W thinks that is why FFH was hitting on her - because this guy at work was talking about how easy W is.
But get this - this person was talking about her A YEAR AGO!. W was upset as if it was just yesterday. I stuck to my 180 to not offer advice, not that there was anything I could say to adjust her irrational anger over something that took place a year ago - which by the way, was when she was practically living at OM's, and what the person was saying was absolutely true.
W's reactions ranged through several cycles of hopelessness, worthlessness, anger and frustration. Her first words were she was not going to see her C anymore because there was no point because nothing was going to ever change. Other statements included: I'm going to get a job and my own place and you can have the kids. I wish I had never been born. I'm a horrible mother, wife and horrible person. I've lost all faith that things will ever be okay.
Several times I forced W to let me hold her. After each time I was able to wrap her in a bear hug, she would cry on my shoulder for several minutes before pushing me away - I'd give her space for awhile and then scratch her back or hug her again. I didn't say anything to her other than a few attempts at casual conv.
This morning she has decided she is going to be a commercial pilot. She said her father always talked about how much he respected doctors, and that is probably the only reason she wanted to be a doctor so badly, because she hates people. First OM is a cargo pilot, and she has "seen the type of life pilots live" and that is what she wants, to be able to do her job and not have to deal with people and to travel from place to place.
When W sprung this on me this morning, I'm thankful it was over the phone so she couldn't see my body language. I was able to stifle my immediate response, and told W it was a good idea to check into the local tech school flight training program. I did also tell her she should ask about their graduation placement - what types of jobs their students were getting.
W has had a really, really rough couple of days dealing with the new knowledge of someone talking about her A from a year ago.
She has thanked me several times for being good to her Sun - hugging her, scratching her, making tea for her - but has not acknowledged she was absolutely horrible to me.
I tried to call her yesterday afternoon to get a number I needed that I left at home. She didn't answer at home or her cell. She did call me later and said she went to our friends but that the friend wasn't home, that I must have called while she was out of the truck.
Last night was "normal". W acknowledged several times that she was happy we were getting along and she could tell I was making an effort, but she still didn't "feel sexual" toward me. I told her I was trying, but needed her help.
W said several times that I do not satisfy her needs. I asked what she meant by that and pointed out several things that I've done to try and meet what I thought her needs were, and if there was something else she just needed to tell me. Conv ended well - but no real progress made, I'm still in the dark regarding her unmet needs.
Today I called to tell W about S12 having an overdue homework assignment that he needed to work on as soon as he got home (S12's teacher emailed me at work), so he could have it done before karate practice. No answer.
I waited an hour and called again, and reached her on her cell at Blockbuster - which is right next to OM's work ?
So now I'm wondering if "You are not meeting my needs" really means, "I'm getting what I need from OM again, I don't need you".
W ended phone call with ILY, which made me feel a little better, but she was saying ILY before she would leave and go to OMs.
W and I had a pretty good MC session yesterday. Where able to discuss our progress and successful holiday, and compare it to our recent setback regarding the plumbing.
Points of Note:
It is a common fear that things will go back to the way they were.
Chosing to act, ispite of how you are feeling is very positive. Be aware of the despair you are feeling and that acting inspite of despair is twice as positive.
Turns out W had some unspoken needs Tuesday night. Even though I came in and solved the immediate problem of water all over the floor - W just wanted to be heard. I just wanted a quick fix so I could go to my wrestling meet, and when I came home - W was in no mood to express her needs. She had jumped to expressing her anger and despair.
Even during MC on Wed, we would start to discuss how to express needs or actions to improve structure w/ kids and W would leap into expressing despair.
For example, W brought up the fact that she would like new couches - but since I'm happy with what we have she might as well just forget it and pretend to be happy. I interjected that we had agreed on getting new couches, even agreed that now that the kids are older we could get good, leather couches, we just needed to save money to afford them.
W remained in her emotion of despair - there was no recognizable acknowledgement that we were together on this topic. I think W may be deliberately confrontational when she feels despair and then sees a positive action that might make her feel better. But some of our conv must sink in, because eventually W makes a comment about something we talked about.
I'm learning that W is listening, and I think is deliberately trying to throw me off track, which makes it is even more important to do what we talk about.
Case in point. During our fight Tues. about the plumbing, I said I could not do anything while it was dark, but I would see what I could do the next day - if it stopped raining. So Wed. I left work early and dug a little ditch for water to drain out of our septic leech field into the drainage ditch at the back of our property. That little action scored major points with W (she told me so), although I could have sworn she didn't hear a word I said.
Feeling sick this morning - slept in and took a long time leaving for work and W's cell phone rang while W and I were talking. I answered it and heard, "oh &%*@" and they hung up. I knew who it was but didn't say anything. W was right there and got pretty defensive. I didn't say much - and didn't raise my voice in any of my replies to Ws comments.
W really pursued me to try and convince me that she was not doing anything bad. She eventually steered the conversation (she was doing almost all the talking anyway) to me going through her purse.
At first I acted innocent, but didn't act very well. W said OM asked for his house key back for security reasons (the one I threw in his driveway - I must have missed ). I asked W why she didn't ask me about it if she knew I had taken it.
W did say she was committed to our M, and that she was scared to end R with OM badly - that she couldn't talk to me about the reasons why. W said she usually turns her phone off, and sometimes she calls him back and sometimes she doesn't.
In response to what you said...I have been in your wife's situation and my H got frustrated too and gave up. You have to ask her how much help exactly she needs. Your definition of helping her w/ the kids and around the house may not be good enough. H says the same thing you do, I feel that if he would do it long enough and not mention it like he should be rewarded or something then that would be great. Men tend to think that they need to be praised for doing something that women tend to have always done. We are not going to praise you unless we are really feeling good(lol). You are supposed to be doing those things anyway. We dont get prasied for sacrificing and doing dinner and dishes daily so its a 50/50 thing. Thats what I tell my H.
Oh perfect example...I told my H all I wanted him to do was to cook more...(nutritous meals) not corn dogs. And I think he's cooked once this month. And then gets frustrated when i say no i dont want your food. Why would I want hot dogs and fires when youre capable of fixing baked chick w/ veggies. So naturally i say if youre not gonna fix a nutritous meal then I'll just fix it.
I'm more of stuck in a catch-22. W has only been cooking sporadically, but has claimed she wants and accepts the responsibility of cooking good meals for the family. If I cook, W feels I am doing her job. If W doesn't cook and I ask about dinner, W feels I am nagging and never help.
I have been trying to work WITH W more, rather than instead of her - but W is trying to work through a serious depression.
But on another note - What's wrong with Corn Dogs
Recently, W has been obsessing about her past treatment from a specific doctor, and is considering sueing him. We've talked about this in MC, W talked about it w/ her C, and we even agreed on a step-by-step course of action. But W doesn't remember any of that - she just wants to sue.
I'm trying to be careful to be supportive, but also remind W she needs to consider what result she wants to get, not just an action she wants to take. W accepted some of my advice, and I slowly started offering more and more advice and supporting less and less, without realizing it.
Suddenly W replied to one of my suggestions, "This is why i need a D, you never support me, IDLY" etc. etc. I quietly got up and left the room after she finished her tirade.
When I came back, W apologized and said she did love me. I told W I would support her no matter what, I just wanted to encourage her to think about what she wanted, not just what she was doing to get it.
We've really had a good several weeks now, but last night - out of the blue, W tore into me with the same old D talk.
I probably had a chance to difuse it early on, but instead avoided conv. W said she wanted me to go to a lawyer with her to talk about sueing her doctor. I told her I wouldn't be a good person to be there with her because I didn't think she had a reason to sue him. W took that to mean I "was on her doctor's side". I told W she needed to do the other things she agreed to do first (file complaint with AMA and document what final outcome she wanted and talk to C about it).
Several hours later, after I returned from picking up S13 and S9 from friends house, W just laid into me about D. She finally settled down, and we had dinner as a family - at least all at the table. W kept eating while the rest of us said grace, and sat there glaring at me the whole time. I honestly wasn't in a much better mood.
After dinner W told the kids to stay downstairs while we went upstairs to talk.
She immediately demanded that I agree to a joint custody D, and ranted and raved. I sat and listened for a short time, and then started cleaning the bedroom, mostly putting clean clothes away. At one point I told W I was already feeling bad - and was in no mood to take her abuse.
W kept demanding I agree to D, I told W I had the right to disagree with her, and the reason there is D court is when couples can't agree. W was totally argumentative. After probably an hour of getting no where (except all the clean clothes put away), I took active listening to the extreme and started repeating everything she said to me.
This actually worked, after W went through her whole argument, she stopped. I left the room for a little bit and W asked if I would sit down and listen to her. I was about ready to explode, but agreed. I sat down, folded my arms and glared at her. I tried hard not to scowl, but the best I could hope for was that W would not see out-right anger in my face.
W started her whole argument over - but in a calmer, introspective type voice. I didn't say a word. W looked over at me occassionally, but kept talking. She started at her need to D, to finding herself, need to be independent, addressed several of the things I had said to her earlier and how she felt about them and how I was right, and talked herself all the way to needing a D because I deserve someone better - that she deserves to be alone, with the kids. She added "with the kids" almost as an after thought several times when she referred to living on her own, by herself, being independent, etc.
At the end she asked if I had anything to say. I had said several silent prayers and at least wasn't angry any longer and instead of saying any of the things I wanted to, I simply said, "I just want to listen".
W kept talking. I was sitting near the computer, I could tell W was in a better mood, but was getting ready to start her argument over, I turned to the computer and started looking for a funny picture I wanted to show her. W made a smart remark that I must be done listening since I was using the computer, and I said I wanted to show her something.
I showed W the funny picture and a funny movie clip and she laughed and then went downstairs. Before I went to bed I went downstairs and gave W a hug - this was serious "acting as if" 'cause what I really wanted to give W rhymes with hug, but starts with "sl".
This morning it was as if last night never happened. The last thing she said to me last night was she was making an appointment with a lawyer today. This morning she was playful and happy - despite my Monday morning blues. Her attitude was contagious and before I left for work we goofed around a little.
PLK- Wow!...I have been catching-up on your thread and your wife is really all over the place. You have given me some excellant advice, but I am not sure I can offer you much.
You are exhibiting a great deal of patience and you are very good at "acting as if". It is interesting that your wife continually tells you that she loves you, but is still talking about a divorce.
I think you are doing a good job of just learning to listen. It seems to be much more effective with your wife rather than offering her "advice". She seems to need to "vent" often. She seems to feel much better after she lets everything out.
Keep working on the DBing and stay strong. Stay in touch as I really appreciate your input!
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). I asked W why she didn't ask me about it if she knew I had taken it.
