I hope you don't think that I was trying to imply that if he somehow found that magical need of hers that wasn't being met that she'd somehow do a sexual 180...that certainly wasn't my intent. I simply think that it can be a catalyst to change...know what I mean?
I definitely agree with you on the majority of what you said...I've often wondered if CeMar has actually communicated to his wife what he wants and what's lacking for him in his marriage as you did...you can't get much clearer than "I started really trying to be a better wife as well as telling him in clear language what the stakes were. Here is what I said: I will pursue an annulment when our kids are older if we can't get our sex life back on track."....you go girl! I bet that was a very difficult thing for you to do too!
I had to tell my H "if we don't seek help we won't be having a 2nd anniversary!" That seemed pretty clear to him too
Yes, that's exactly what I did that's working fairly well for me too :-)
And I completely agree...a marriage is a constant work in progress and it absolutely should be. I think that's where many people go astray...they become complacent, stop paying attention to each other, take each other for granted in many ways...and then wonder why their relationship has changed for the worse.
That's exactly what has happened to my parents. They however will probably stay married...because they both feel they've invested far too much time in the relationship...but they haven't invested themselves, just time.
In their relationship I see a HUGE lack of communication. My dad will tell me what he wants out of it and what he wants my mom to do...but at the same time he'll pull a CeMar and say "but she'll never do this....or she won't do xyz!" He says this stuff to me...he doesn't say it to her and continues to harbor the resentment which only eats away at him and their relationship.
My mom on the other hand is willing to do everything but counseling; and she, like my husband, never initiates important conversations and in the past never initiated affection or sex. She tells me that she now tries to initiate sex more often, gives him affection, tells him she loves him etc. But my dad is still stuck on the...she only has sex because she feels she has to. He doesn't see that she initiates sex with him because he's expressed his need for it...she loves him, so she's trying to fulfill that need. It's not duty sex just because she's not gung ho about it, it's still done out of love for him...but he doesn't see it that way. I know my mom picks up on that resentment, so she has resigned herself to...she'll do her thing, he can do his (short of affairs of course).
It's really frustrating to watch...and now I know waaaaaay too much about my folks! LOL
GEL, it's no wonder you understand the Cemar sitch so well... he really needs to listen to you and take your suggestions, because you are a witness to where his marriage will end up if he doesn't say something.
I know it's scary to put ourselves out there and say what we want. I too have been stuck in resentment (not just in this R, but in past ones, too). It's so easy to think you know how your partner is going to react and know what's going on in their minds and act the whole thing out in your head without giving them a chance.
I am watching it first hand...and getting input from both sides on this. Naturally, I can't say anything to the other about what's been said to me...because they're both saying things in confidence. But it's been an excellent learning experience for me.
One good thing to come from my parents situation is that last Christmas right around the time everything with my LDH was coming to a head (no pun intended)....my parents clued me in (separately) to what was going on with them. Now that was good and bad. I was already completely stressed out with my situation (thinking my marriage was heading for divorce) and now I hear my Dad say that he would walk out on my Mom if he were 15 years younger.
Now obviously that's the bad to the situation...what's the good? I relayed everything to my H, about how stressed I was and that yes, he was a big part of my stress...but when I clued him in on what my folks were going through it kind of helped I think. I mean, I told him that if we didn't figure something out...that would be us, but it wouldn't take us 38 years to get to that point.
It's funny how people think they can just bury their heads in the sand and somehow everything will be all right. There are consequences to everything, and everything is always in motion... and yet people still think they can ignore everyone around them and go on about their business with no consequences. It's like when kids go off to school and come back and mom has made their room into a sewing room. They think when they're not there, nothing will change. But in a marriage, too, if you're "not there" emotionally, things will change without you. And you really have no right to be surprised if the train leaves the station without you. Gee, that was a real metaphor-fest!
It's funny how people think they can just bury their heads in the sand and somehow everything will be all right. There are consequences to everything, and everything is always in motion... and yet people still think they can ignore everyone around them and go on about their business with no consequences. It's like when kids go off to school and come back and mom has made their room into a sewing room. They think when they're not there, nothing will change. But in a marriage, too, if you're "not there" emotionally, things will change without you. And you really have no right to be surprised if the train leaves the station without you. Gee, that was a real metaphor-fest!
Yeah...that Christmas really sucked! It was my son's 1st Christmas, so I was really looking forward to it. Instead it ended up becoming nothing but what I call...an emotional sh*t storm! I remember sitting in the bathtub, while everyone else was out in the living room, crying and soaking in a warm bath, with a beer in my hand because I just needed some time to have an emotional breakdown. My H walked into the bath to see what I was doing...took one look at me in the state I was in and asked if I'd like another bottle of beer...or a six-pack LOL. He knew he was part of what was causing me grief bless his pea-pickin heart...he just didn't (at that time) know how to go about helping really.
I really hope that CeMar is able to see the light...or for that matter that maybe his W will, but he can't count on that. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't....but it still seems to me that he's assuming what she will/won't/can't do...preemptive, like you were saying.
I wish him luck...but until he can get past the resentments and the proverbial chip on his shoulder I don't see how the improvements will come. But that's me, perhaps I'm being pessimistic because of what I've experienced not only within my relationship with my LDH, but what I've seen with my parents as well.
Thanks for the comments, it is food for thought. Here are some responses back to you: 1) I have asked my wife recently why she married me and she said for physical attraction and for financial security. So in a way, she thought I would make enough money to make us secure. Unfortunately, we are over extended and slowy getting back to financial security again, but it is a slow process. That is why I mentioned paying the bills and get a better job for financial security for HER. 2) Get more involved with the children. Our children are the FOCUS of her life(not me). She would love to see me do more with the children (I already do a lot). 3) Communication, need more of it in any way possible. 4) She wants the sex thing to go away. 5) She likes me VERY physically fit. 7) She did make the comment that I do not stand up to her, she wants a strong man. I spent to much time ACCOMODATING her to keep her happy. 8) Take her out more. Yes, must do this. Has never led to any type of sexual/affectionate event. We always return to PARENT roles after dates. Once had a perfect weekend on the 10th anniversery in a very romantic setting, where most couples WOULD get cozy. She made comment that it was wonderful to be able to have such a weekend and NOT MAKE LOVE. She said this when dressed head to toe in flannel. This is when I knew my marriage was in DEEP trouble. 10) Work on house. I believe that wife has a love language of acts of service. 11) Be romantic, speaks for itself. 12) I believe my wife is asexual, and gets most enjoyment by staying busy and getting things done, and I think she would like to see the same in me. Great way to AVOID sex and intimacy, which is what she wants. I also think she prefers men that do not need her, she does not like neediness, and if I want sex, I am needy to her.
Quote: Keep in mind whatever need it is that she has that's not being met she may not even be aware of....which makes it that much more difficult to figure out.
This is exactly the problem. This is why Dr. Laura infers that men can not fix their relationships. Asking a man to understand a woman when we are simple creatures and women are far more complex? Heck one of the womens guide books I read said that even women do not understand women. When it comes to my relationship, she is the pro and I will always be the amatuer. And yet I am trying to figure her out.
Quote: Where have you been the entire time your wife was becoming this "undesireable" woman?
I watched my wife change after our first son was born, all the fun affectionate/sexual things that happened before his birth eventually stopped after his birth. I thought that it was the business and hormones that were affecting her and I thought I could wait until they got better. 14 years and two more sons and her desire is still DOA. Hope this clears some things up.
Rayanne, Not ancient, but experienced. my DOB 1943, Married 1968, Daughter 1970, Son 1972, built & live in house since 1974, Grand parent 2002 & 2004, started going down hill 1981 after back surgery & job adjustments because of back problems, hit bottom 2003, started my search for value (mostly my worth) early 2004, started showing results Aug/Sept 2004.
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OG Lou= OG=Old gang, Old guy, or "Old Fashion Values", Lou=childhood nick name.
