This book was written to women. I think there was the assumption that a women that would actually buy the book is already in a somewhat motivated mood. To give this to a strong, liberated women who is NOT motivated to improve the sex would basically fall on deaf ears. I will not be giving it to her, I would just be getting further into the doghouse.
I have to agree with another one of the people who mentioned that you need to concentrate on where your W is coming from as an LD woman, and stop wishing that she were more motivated...that's an exercise in futility. Reading a book that I agree with you is directed to an LD person motivated to change...isn't going to be helpful to you, it think it would just be more frustrating than anything...so why do that to yourself?
I have to agree with Dr. Laura. It is extremely hard to motivate a LD women, unless she WANTS to be motivated. The problem is that us guys are trying to get them to change their habits when there is nothing that us guys have to offer a women that they physically need. My sexuality is HEAVILY driven by chemicals and i will do ANYTHING to get my needs met. My wife does not have any physical needs, so therefore, when it comes to change, she has no physical motivation like men do. This is why Dr. Laura says that it is far easier for the women to change a marriage then it is for the man. Women have known this for ever, when sex is on the line, you can get a man to do just about anything.
My wife had desire a long time ago. When she had desire, everything was great. Then she had kids and lost her desire. Without desire, she is a completely different women, and that would be a very unappealing woman. So how do LD women change back to being HD? What can I do that would turn her back into HD? Sex without the desire is pointless. Marriage without desire is pointless.
Quote: My wife does not have any physical needs, so therefore, when it comes to change, she has no physical motivation like men do.
CeMar...I guarantee there is a "need" that is not being met for her, true it may not be a physical need...emotional needs are equally important. Ok, I can hear you laughing at that last statement...but I'm telling you that it's true. If a woman does not feel that her needs are being met emotionally it's a HUGE turnoff for her. You have to stop equating what your physical needs are to her...that won't work!
Quote: Women have known this for ever, when sex is on the line, you can get a man to do just about anything.
Now that's interesting...apparantly my LDH doesn't know about this.
Quote: My wife had desire a long time ago. When she had desire, everything was great. Then she had kids and lost her desire. Without desire, she is a completely different women, and that would be a very unappealing woman.
Ouch!!! That's harsh CeMar...so there's very little that is appealing about your W besides sex? Do you really mean that?
Quote: What can I do that would turn her back into HD?
I repeat (sigh) find the need that you aren't meeting...stop assuming it has to be a physical need of hers either.
Quote: Sex without the desire is pointless.
No it's not it's a starting point, but it is pointless if you go at it with the attitude you have.
There are lots of things I can do. Here is a list:
1) Pay the bills on time and make her financially secure. 2) Play with my boys, get closer to them, and correct them in a better fashion. 3) Communication. 4) Accept her the way she is(she wants this not me). 5) get into better shape. 6) get a better job? 7) Stand up to her (Working on this all the time now). 8) Take her out more. (But nothing ever happens for me. Our dates always fizzle out). 9) She wants me to get my happiness elsewhere. Unfortunately, there is NO substitute for the hapiness of having a lover. I already have hobbies and activities, and they can not substitute for a great sexual relationship. 10) Work on the house. 11) Be more romantic. This is a little hard since my wife does not like to touch me or kiss me. 12) She would like me to be more like her, interested in doing activities and staying busy, rather then being interested in sex and affection. She basically wants a LD man.
CeMar wrote << I have to agree with Dr. Laura. It is extremely hard to motivate a LD women >>
Well CeMar if you are letting Dr Laura be your wizzard you have to let Dr Phill be your wizzars too. He said everone responds to their currency which means people can be persuaded if you find what is valuable to them.
My W use to have desire. That was in 1981. Now her currency is a foot or back rub, spending a lot of time together, spooning for a couple of nights, and then maybe I get laid.
Why do I put up with that? Well, after 10+ years of me feeling rejected and disapointed when trying to push a rope across the street so to speak, we came to the conclusion that if I meet her needs (back and foot rubs and the rest) she will try to meet some of my needs. Its called working with what you have to work with. When I am in the big "O" stage she smiles sometimes, then I know she is doing what she can. So now I am draging the rope or working with what I have.
<< What can I do that would turn her back into HD? >> Mrs Nop had a few clues, but you know you can not "MAKE" anyone do anything.
<< Sex without the desire is pointless. >> CeMar, Desire is the expected thing, but what alternative could you find that you "MIGHT" enjoy without desire. I like Royal Crown cola from a bottle the best, but I enjoy Pepsi and Coke from a bottle and to a lesser extent Pepsi and Coke from a can. I can hear your reply even before I type this out. (If it is not Royal Crown from a bottle, it's just sugar water). My reply is drink Coke from a can until you find RC Cola in a bottle, or was that Nehi grape=(not bottled any more.) Sometimes things just disapear. Anyone see I-pan-na tooth paste and Bucky Beaver lately?
BTW, I read the book too and I was upset to the point of almost no return because I saw what I was missing. W would not read it. Said she did not want to read that "sex crap."
OG Lou Sometimes we want good wine but all we have are lemons. Now let me think. I seem to remember there is something you can do with lemons? Humm?
That's basically what I (and others) have been trying to get across to CeMar...he's either not listening, or he's stuck in a tunnel vision trap. He just doesn't seem focused on the goal of working towards something.
CeMar... Here's how I see your list...really this is just honest observation, not nit-picking.
1) Pay the bills on time and make her financially secure. - Don't you do this anyway? If not WHY? 2) Play with my boys, get closer to them, and correct them in a better fashion. - Um, that's not a need of hers, that's a need of theirs. 3) Communication - Ok, that one I buy....but that's a pretty vague way of putting it...work on communication in what way? 4) Accept her the way she is(she wants this not me) - 5) get into better shape - That's not a "need" of hers either...it may help her see you in a better light (maybe) but it's not a "need". 6) get a better job? - once again not a "need", it may not hurt if you feel that your job interferes with time spent with the family or something like that though. 7) Stand up to her (Working on this all the time now)- ok, is that a need of hers or a need of yours? Has she asked you to stand up to her more? And when you do how do you go about it? Some people stand up to others in a calm manner, others come across as attacking and demanding....which are you? 8) Take her out more (But nothing ever happens for me. Our dates always fizzle out) - what do you do? The same old same old? Or do you try different things when you go out, is there anything she's expressed interest in that you blow off? If so, just try it...if she's got a love for the theatre, ballet, symphony (whatever) and you hate it...will spending 2.5 hours of your life on something you don't really enjoy all that much kill you if it is something that would mean alot to her? Stuff like that can really pay-off. It shows you take an interest in what she likes. For example...I HATE hunting & Nascar personally....but my husband loves both...so, while I don't get into it, I do encourage his hunting, buy him stuff for it, ask him about his hunts...and the same with Nascar. He does the same for me. My LDH and I have very different tastes in our activities....he's what I'd call a "Good Ole Boy", I'm more of a "Cultured City Girl", both have their good/bad points...but we make an effort to take an interest in each others hobbies/interests...it really helps. 9) She wants me to get my happiness elsewhere - Is she suggesting you have an affair? If so, then I wouldn't think that would be acceptable for you...but I wonder if it's a smoke-screen so she doesn't have to deal with some things she doesn't want to. 10) Work on the house - once again, not a "need" 11) Be more romantic. This is a little hard since my wife does not like to touch me or kiss me - Ok, now this is something that can be more difficult. Has she told you previously how she likes to be touched? The reason I ask is that I've told my LDH several times what works/doesn't work for me...he would still continue to do the stuff I didn't like...is it possible you are too? I find that sometimes we do what we think the other person would like, when in actuality it they may not like that type of physical contact at all. Just food for thought. 12) She would like me to be more like her, interested in doing activities and staying busy, rather then being interested in sex and affection. - If she said that, it's a cop out...if you're assuming that's what she wants STOP IT!
Ok, that's my take on your list CeMar. Keep in mind whatever need it is that she has that's not being met she may not even be aware of....which makes it that much more difficult to figure out. I mentioned previously that I wasn't a fan of Dr. Laura...and I'm really not but another person mentioned that if you're going to listen to her then you should listen to Dr. Phil as well. That man had a point...you can't pick and choose the people you listen to simply because they said something you want to hear...it really sounded to me that Dr. Laura said something you wanted to hear (that it was up to the wife to change the marriage). That gives you an easy out...someone to blame, and you are all too willing to do that. Where have you been the entire time your wife was becoming this "undesireable" woman?
I want the same things out of my M that he does--sex, yes, but also the sexy affection outside the bedroom. It does wonders for reminding me that I am someone's beloved and not just a generic Wife or Mother.
Another way I am like Cemar is that it took me FOUR YEARS to do something about my sexless marriage. During that time, I seethed or was upset or confused most of the time. I couldn't understand what was going on. I had my own theories (many of which were exactly right) but I was too chickenpoop to say anything to my husband. Truly, I was scared of hearing that he just didn't want sex anymore and that I was stuck. I didn't think my ego could bear to hear that I wasn't sexually attractive to him any longer. So I stalled and wondered and tried to get him interested. I begged him, during sex, "please PLEASE let's do this again tomorrow night" but it never happened. Once every six weeks or so was about the extent of my sex life, and even then it was in the middle of the night when H was too sleepy to deny his physical urges anymore.
Cemar, I can tell you that it did NOT get any better until I confronted things head on.
Yes, I had things that I needed to improve upon and needs of his that weren't being met. Did that magically turn things around? HELL NO!
Is that what you are wanting to hear from someone, cause if it is, then there ya go. My meeting my H's needs did NOT fill him with desire for me. It made him a happier person, though.
For me it was a one-two punch that eventually did it. I started really trying to be a better wife as well as telling him in clear language what the stakes were. Here is what I said: I will pursue an annulment when our kids are older if we can't get our sex life back on track. How often do you think we can ML? He replied twice per week and that's how the repair process started.
Now, along the way we also had to defuse the other time bombs in our M, namely his religious issues and my ANGER. I was so pissed at being sexually neglected that my every action had a good amount of anger bubbling beneath it, even when the action was a kind one. I simply could not let it go. Likewise, his religious issues continued to surface for a looooooong time--and sometimes still do.
My point is that your focus is on your wife changing, while you do nothing. This is not going to work. You will have to be a STRONG MAN (and I know you are) and lead the change, force it, and guide it. I know you think this somehow cheapens the process but I don't think so.
Let me give an example: When we first married, H treated me like a princess. I acted like one, too! I had been on my own for 6 years when I married him so there was no real basis for this behavior, other than it's nice to be spoiled and what kind of an idiot would turn it down. The ONLY thing I did in our marital home was cook supper and I couldn't even do that. (he bought me a subscription to a cooking magazine that 1st year, lol) I did not clean anything, do any laundry, mow the lawn, etc. NOTHING. H would sometimes grouse or grumble about the laundry but I paid no attention to it, the lovely and happy newlywed girl that I was. Finally after we were married 2 years, he FLIPPED OUT over the laundry one day. Absolutely demanded that I help him with it and that his days of doing it alone were over. We both worked full time but it was him who came home and then did all the household stuff. It is crazy when I look back on it! WHAT was I thinking!?
Do you see where I'm headed with this, ha ha.
Since then, there has been a slow and subtle shift to the way we operate nowadays. I went from never doing one single load of laundry, to helping out, to doing it all myself. Along the way, I've also had a career change..granted..but all this happened before we had children and I quit my job.
My point is, of course, that people can and DO change all the time. Sometimes even drastically. These days, I do 95% of the cleaning and laundry and all of the cooking. I am an excellent wife and he tells me this frequently. I feel good about the maturing that I have done over the last 10 yrs and who I have become.
It was H who 'helped' me with that process when I was stuck in a very selfish and self centered place. I honestly didn't realize the extent that he felt resentful and overworked, as nuts as that sounds! To my eyes, he did it and so he must not mind doing it.
I needed a wake up call from him and your wife needs one from you.
It took my H two years to have reached his limit and say something...it took me 4 yrs to reach my SSM limit and say something to him...and so I ask you, friend, what is YOUR limit?
