Hairy, I agree with Journey. Her saying "I'd hate to be you" really means "I'd hate to be you and be married to someone like me." She dislikes that she feels this way, whether she is willing to admit it or not.
You know, I think that the ONLY way out of your current situation is to reveal yourself. If you keep yourself hidden away from her and don't tell her your real feelings, there is NO motivation for her to change. She will continue to act out (which, curiously, sounds a lot like her father) and test you.
Why not tell her exactly what you told us? That whole line about forcing yourself on her? I wonder if she could see the parallels between that (ridiculous) scenario and her own behavior? I'm sure she would try to turn it into a male v. female rant, but perhaps you could tweak it a little bit to still get your point across..?
There have been many times (and they still occur quite regularly) where I feel like a freak because I am honestly describing my sexual feelings..knowing that he will be attempting to disguise his shock and surprise at how I REALLY feel. I know that the rawness and depth of my desires really makes him feel weird. I can't say that I don't care (cause I do) but I refuse to let it stop me. I just screw up my courage and wear it on my sleeve.
Until I did this on a regular basis, there was an imbalance of power. He told me how he felt and I sheepishly tried to reach him with vague pleas. It wasn't until I started meeting his force of honesty with my own force of honesty that things started to turn around. It took a long time (is TAKING a long time, lol) but despite the bad times, I am still glad that we are at that place where we can do this. It feels as if we are choosing each other, in spite of knowing the 'truth' about each other.
So my vote is to lay it on the line and stop medicating those thoughts outta your head.
xo
P.S. GGB's news this morning coincides with what I was trying to say, also.
P.P.S. Is it SO WRONG to take Benadryl so you don't have to deal with your kids??? But they're driving me nutz, Harry!!
Thanks, folks. Hmmm, seems like conflicting advice. Corri counsels "passive resistance" while IHJ and HP suggest "laying it on the line." At least I think they are conflicting.
Corri: basically I ended the conversation by saying "not now." This suggests that I would be willing to get "into it" later. I'm going to have to say to her that I can't really be happy in a room mate relationship for life. I am still reading that boundaries in marriage book. I'm on the section about commitment, and at least it helps me feel like I am doing the right thing about staying where I am, and not saying I'm going to leave her all the time. She's the one who, when we fight, always threatens divorce. And, when I refuse to take the bait and say something like, "fine, draw up the papers," she gets all indignant and accuses ME of not wanting to work for a good relationship.
It simply makes no sense. With my ex-W, I got to the point that I realized it was a waste of energy and time to assign any sort of logic to her statements. I'm almost there with W.
She just called, ostensibly to find out about an appointment. She asked how I was doing, which is a question that she normally won't ask. (She might say, "how is your day", but "how are you doing" usually follows either the discovery of something sad, like a death or illness in the family; or a fight.) I said, "fine" and did not leave a pause at the end for her to fill with additional questions. Instead, I said, "I have about a week and a half of work I've put off because of that hearing."
She's knows I'm upset about her "why can't you be happy" statement from last night. She gets to be happy because she can just let the relationship languish and she is getting what she wants, which is no physical contact from me. My current state of not engaging is pissing her off because it's like she wants to have a fight about this so we can be distant some more.
I miss feeling a naked body next to mine. I miss a warm hand on my chest. I miss being pulled toward a face with moist, soft lips.
I remember some girl in college told me that I was the best kisser she had ever met. Now, I can't even remember the last time I had tongue-to-tongue contact with my W.
Yes, I'm feeling kind of down today. I appreciate the words of advice and encouragement.
Ooh, Hairy, you always seem to get conflicting advice don'tcha!
Corri has an excellent point. I do believe that she is responding but the question is: Do you have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out til she figures it out? Cause the passive resistance program is going to take a looooooong time, imo. She's a stubborn woman, remember!
Hey, here's a question for you: When W asked how you were doing, which is a departure for her and indicates to me that she really DID want to know your feelings, why did you say "fine"? Why didn't you tell her the truth and say "I feel sad today"?
IOW, I think that the passive resistance plan, combined with more self revelation, might be the ticket.
I said "fine" because I didn't want to get "into it" with her, especially not over the phone. I really do feel like she wants a conflict to flare up...maybe it's just me being cynical, but it seems like in the past when she says something like what she said last night, she is baiting me. Then, when I say something like, "I am sad," she ends up saying that it's always all about me; or, I will never be happy until I'm okay with her saying, "NO"; or, I am putting too much pressure on her; or, the usual myriad of other arguments. They end up being fights, and then we are distant (more distant) from each other for a few days.
And I just don't feel like getting into that when I'm at work and she's on her way to work.
I think it is sad for two people to be so incompatible when it comes to intimacy. My bf lives out of town and I only get to see him once every few weeks, and I too miss a warm body to be next to. I would not be happy with this remark from her; it tells me she is really out of touch with her sexualty and doesn't have a clue how to get it back (actually I don't think she feels good about herself physically, at all). Wonder why she couldn't have seen that tv show and said "wish I was more like that???". Don't really know what else to say...
Your sitch is different than mine, but my recent experience was that, yes do confront her but,
1) Change of venue, don’t have ‘the talk’ at home, in bed, at night, do it sometime where you are away from these distractions and also in such a way that she doesn’t feel cornered. Don’t let her off the hook but don’t start out in opposite corners.
2) Be nice about it, should scare the heck out of her, really, I keep a happy face and just let the resentment boil over, by having the serious discussion but keep it cordial seemed to do wonders for me. Again, in my sitch we both didn’t want it to be adversarial.
3) Say what? I would ask her what she really means; confusion doesn’t help either of you. Hey, if I am getting blow off, be clear and let me know where I stand.
4) A plan, the one thing I wasn’t going to back down from is some kind of a plan or agreement on what we were going to do differently, same as before didn’t work right? So what is different now?
I was going to say the same thing as HP. HD, you need to do both things, stay calm when she is provoking you, and continue to assert your agenda and not let her off the hook.
The calm thing really gets to my H. This weekend he asked me if I'm taking tranquilizers. In the past ( okay, not so past), he would provoke me and the ensuing fight would provide the smokescreen he needed to avoid his feelings. The calmer I become, the more he has to look into himself. Also, for H, having a fight was a way of developing passion and while that's nice once in awhile, I want our pattern of lovemaking to come from good feelings.
The other thing I wanted to comment on is the escalating fights that would result in divorce-speak. The release of tension during these arguments came at a huge emotional cost and was draining for both of us. I realized that there was a part of me that allowed it to go to that level because then I could indulge in "escape" thoughts, which really wasn't healthy or productive. It was just a way of avoiding reality...my reality is that I am not willing to bust up the family unless absolutely necessary.
Back to your sitch, your W really doesn't understand why her desire is low, but she does know something is wrong. She will continue to deflect with her provocative, attacking comments and she is good at it. Think of them as her shield.
Lastly, try your best not to take her lack of desire personally. It is hard for me to think that my H is not so attracted to me and has mixed feelings that he himself can't sort through on his own. But, I do not let him off the hook and he has to confront and push through to meet me at some compromise.
BTW, I have been both LD and HD and hands down, I am happier being HD, with all its frustrations. It's nice to have my body working so easily.
Quote: Corri: basically I ended the conversation by saying "not now." This suggests that I would be willing to get "into it" later. I'm going to have to say to her that I can't really be happy in a room mate relationship for life.
Yes, you are. But what you recognize is you are not ready to take that step yet, which is fine. It does you and her no good to get into an argument if you are not ready to draw your line in the sand... and then it is not an argument, anyway. So my point was, until you are ready, don't half-asss it, you know? All it does is give her fuel and a reason to be pissed at her father through you, and makes you more sad and miserable in the process.
Quote: I am still reading that boundaries in marriage book. I'm on the section about commitment, and at least it helps me feel like I am doing the right thing about staying where I am, and not saying I'm going to leave her all the time. She's the one who, when we fight, always threatens divorce. And, when I refuse to take the bait and say something like, "fine, draw up the papers," she gets all indignant and accuses ME of not wanting to work for a good relationship.
Sweety, you are a man, and that means you will never, ever, ever understand the logic of a woman... all you have to be is clear on your boundaries, and you can let the woman worry about her own logic. You don't even have to GO there. That is one of the brilliant things about boundaries.
Take your time, read your book, understand it, think on what your boundaries are, and when you are ready, you will confront your wife. Until you have decided you are ready, you are wise, DON'T get into it (and that is a boundary in a sense, did you realize that? and you are already doing it... see how brilliant you are?)
I understand what you miss and why, and that is helping you inch closer to setting those boundaries. Nothing wrong with taking your time, none whatsoever, because if you do it before you are ready, it's just going to blow up in your face. And it may blow up in your face when you do set your boundary... but the difference is, you are ready for it... either way, you can deal...
Chin up, buckeroo. No need to be down... unless you want to be... I understand that... pity-parties are sometimes very necessary... that center of the universe chair is quite comfy... stay there as long as you need. You'll get out of the chair when you're tired of it.
I'm sorry, I can just think of no good reason to bash you.... just ain't happenin'. And if I can't think of a reason to bash you... well... there just can't be one single solitary good reason for it...
Thanks, Corri. As you know, I really appreciate your insights. A special thanks for coming out of exile to post here today. I was thinking about all the people who have passed through this board and how so many of them are gone or seldom heard: Tim, the Daves, Mojo/Jenny, cinemanymph, etc. So many folks with great diversity of views. You're one of my very favorites, though. And thanks for the kiss!
Last night I came up to bed after watching about 10 minutes of some stupid show on TV. She was in bed, too, by the time I brushed my teeth, etc. We chatted about nothing in particular when the phone rang -- my son, needing me to e-mail him an assignment he had completed on our computer. I got up to go downstairs to do this, and my W said, (trying to be funny or sarcastic or facetious or something), "It's a good thing we weren't having sex."
Huh?
So I said, "yeah, it's a good thing." By the time I was done emailing and got back to bed, she was asleep.
She seems to be bringing up the sex thing -- without ANY prompting by me -- more often. I take this as an indication that it is on her mind. I imagine that she is just trying to figure out where I am on the issue, since I haven't brought it up on my own in a while. Under the "normal marital sadism" category, I guess I get a bit of satisfaction in knowing that she's unsure of the status right now.
