Putting into practice what I have learned...

[Livnlearn]

OK everyone,

I feel well and truly whacked. Even I, as I sat there sort of detached and looking in at how the weekend was going, was thinking, this is ridiculous.

Time for H to truly feel the consequences of his choices and for me to get off my butt and get a life of my own without vaguely hoping H will see the sense of working on our marriage some day soon.

Livnlearn, smarting form the whacks!

[Livnlearn]

This weekend I plan to hook up (they are coming over) with the relatives of H (actually his nephew who is nearly our age, his wife and their two kids - D's cousins who are two boys her age and a little younger.) I nearly fell out of touch with them when all this happened, but we are in touch again, at their instigation. We were going to meet around the time I was called away when my mother died, we had to cancel, now we will do something this weekend.

H rang to talk to D this evening, mentioned that he might get a lift down this weekend so maybe he could see D or something - did I have plans? I said, yes, I had plans. He said what? I said, they are not yet fixed but I DO have plans.

We agreed to talk later.

I had originally thought I would call H over when his relatives came, but now I am thinking,

1) I don't want his presence to put a damper on things, at least on my mood, and
2) Will we have enough sleeping space with two adults and two kids coming over and H not wanting to share the matrimonial bed??

I don't want to seem like I am deliberately keeping him out of the loop, but I am beginning to wonder if I worry too much about H's feelings in all this and whether I really should just drop the rope completely and carry on as if he doesn't exist?

Thoughts?

Livnlearn

[kml]

Well, first, what do YOU want?
Are you dying to spend some time with his relatives alone, where you can talk and share about H? Or is that a conversation you wouldn't really be having in dd's presence anyway? Would seeing these relatives be a good influence on H, or are they so mad at him that they would be uncomfortable and have trouble being civil to him?

If you think things would be comfortable between H and his relatives, then why not give him the option to come? Maybe having other adults there could help "break the ice" between you two. And maybe H will decide sleeping on the floor is so uncomfortable that he wants to climb in bed with you instead

Seems to me there's a bit of a disconnect (gee, big surprise) between what H SAYS and what he DOES. Although he's SAYING he's your EXH, this is the third weekend now in a short time that he's asked to come and stay. I can't help but think he's testing the waters. You admit yourself you weren't at your best last time. How about letting him come and see you through other people's eyes, as the charming and entertaining hostess?

Ellie

[Livnlearn]

Well, first, what do YOU want?

Good question, Ellie.

1) I want to have a pleasant weekend! I really do!!

2) I want D to be in touch with her cousins as she has few relatives that are her age, live in the same continent or stay in touch at all.

3) I want to stay in touch as they are nice people. I don't believe they have taken sides at all. I know that H visited them a couple of times after the bomb and no doubt told him his side of things to some extent. But when his nephew got in touch this time, this summer, he said he was very pleased that I had responded (actually I sent them a Christmas card last year but heard nothing back) and he also said that H was "silly".

4) I would LOVE H to be there *if* he could carry off the weekend with a pleasant manner. I DON'T want my weekend spoiled by bad/selfish behaviour on his part. But I can't control how H is. I know I can control my reactions, but do I want to spend a weekend "controlling" my reactions???

Are you dying to spend some time with his relatives alone, where you can talk and share about H? Or is that a conversation you wouldn't really be having in dd's presence anyway?

I didn't intend to talk about H at all, really. Just to have a pleasant time, and keep in touch.

Would seeing these relatives be a good influence on H, or are they so mad at him that they would be uncomfortable and have trouble being civil to him?

I haven't discussed H with them and had no intention of doing so. I don't know what they think of H and his actions, frankly. H told me about some remarks that the wife supposedly made just pre-bomb, that I had looked bad - tired or whatever - and wasn't the woman I was was in earlier years. That is, I wasn't the woman he married!! (backing up his contention that a separation would be great for both of us!!)

This woman last met me on a weekend soon after we moved house, the house wasn't yet set up, H invited all four of them overnight, PLUS OW 1's family and others for a party, against my inclination. There were five excited kids in the house that evening (four boys), they were playing on the bunk bed and D fell off the top bunk in her excitement and broke her wrist. So yes, I guess I was feeling a little overwrought and harassed...

If you think things would be comfortable between H and his relatives, then why not give him the option to come? Maybe having other adults there could help "break the ice" between you two.

I was thinking maybe mention them coming but leave it up to him to ask if he can come too, at least I won't get the "I'm your ex-husband" routine again. I think.

And maybe H will decide sleeping on the floor is so uncomfortable that he wants to climb in bed with you instead ...

...and pigs might fly, at this stage!!

Seems to me there's a bit of a disconnect (gee, big surprise) between what H SAYS and what he DOES. Although he's SAYING he's your EXH, this is the third weekend now in a short time that he's asked to come and stay.

You know, H has often described one of his friends as a 'cat', someone who only does things to please himself or for his own comfort. But that is exactly what H is like! He told me on the phone this evening that his house is cold. He has no OW there, so now he needs somewhere to go! No doubt, he feels that as he is paying the mortgage on this house here, he should get the benefits too.

I can't help but think he's testing the waters. You admit yourself you weren't at your best last time. How about letting him come and see you through other people's eyes, as the charming and entertaining hostess?

I wasn't at my best 'cause H wore me out with his stuff. It is almost impossible being all that (charming and entertaining ) with the H stuff going on as well...

I'll have to think about this more...

Livnlearn

[kml]

He told me on the phone this evening that his house is cold. He has no OW there, so now he needs somewhere to go! No doubt, he feels that as he is paying the mortgage on this house here, he should get the benefits too.

There you go again, listening to what he SAYS, not what he does. Do you really think that's the only reason he comes down to stay with you? Trust me, no WAH on this board that I've ever read about would be staying with his W on the weekend if he wasn't at least a little confused about the R. There's nothing "convenient" about staying with your X!!

Ellie

[dazedboy]

Please try to step back further and REALLY determine what you want. This controlling dance that you two are playing at is keeping the real issues buried under raw emotion. I don't see a true desire on hubby's part to make this work. Why should he? You are right there as his safety net. Sorry to be so blunt, but will you at least consider distancing yourself from all this and see that you can be very happy being who you are? Then, and only then, can you determine what is best.

I hope you can allow yourself to be selfish and give the most important person in this two player game a chance. (you ) You cannot and will not be able to make him happy any more than he, or anyone else can make you happy. That's your job. Take time right now to get YOU happy. He and others will then be able to feed off of your bouyant energy.

It is easy for us on the boards to see that positive side of you. I'm afraid your being so close to the hubby's situation might only portray a clingy, angry person. Show yourself as the person he can't live without. For that, you have to take some 'you' time.

To the pool my dear girl! The cabana boys await!

[Livnlearn]

Well.

I have mulled over what Ellie and Dazedboy and a whole lot of others have posted here.

I really, really do have to focus on myself now. I don't bear H any ill will, I hope and pray that he finds himself, finds his centre soon, wherever that is. I cannot do it for him.

My self esteem has suffered blow after blow in all this mess. I was thinking today, after I dropped off D at school and was walking through the park (the bike had a puncture!) that I need to start behaving like I am a worthy person once again. On all fronts.

I may not be earning much at the moment, but I AM capable, something will work out, I am sure of it. I have to behave like I am sure of it. I have been asked to do two things recently, over the internet, that will help raise my profile but won't earn me any money (in the sphere of my personal profession). I have accepted both invitations, I feel sure they will lead to more exposure and ultimately to some reward.

I need to behave with H like *I* matter, to me! H's nephew rang today, we fixed up that they will visit Saturday afternoon till Sunday evening. He did not mention H. If it comes up with H that they are visiting, I will see if H makes any moves to come see them, otherwise I will let it rest there. H has led his life the last 19 months like I didn't exist, as far as including me in anything, so I need to do the same. It is after all what he wants right now.

I am always open to him, I don't mean him any harm. But he will have to make any moves, sincerely. Amen.

Livnlearn

[kml]

Just be careful to distinguish between angry detachment and loving detachment, okay?

If these weekends at your house are actually the first clumsy efforts at reconnecting, pushing him away in anger may be the wrong thing to do. But I DO agree you need to stop twisting yourself up into a pretzel for him.

Why not just send him an email (you DID say you'd get back to him) and let him know his relatives are coming for the weekend, and he's welcome to join you all, but might have to sleep on the floor. Then let him decide.

Ellie

[Livnlearn]

Do you detect anger in my detachement? (Genuine question )

I don't feel anger, more -

1) a need to shift the focus away from H
2) a need to protect myself from endless hurt, without actually closing any doors
3) a need to have a relaxing time!

Am I missing something?

Livnlearn

[kml]

I guess I'm picking up more "if he's gonna be grumpy I'm gonna take away my toys" than "I care that he's depressed, and maybe if he comes this weekend it would help him, but my happiness doesn't hinge on whether he comes or not, and I can have a good time whether he's here or not. His moods and actions no longer dictate my moods."

Ellie