H kept me at arm's length the whole time. Very distant.
He mentioned OW 2 a number of times in various contexts. Things like -
"I never bought good whisky up in the hills - if I had had a bottle of it OW 2 would have glugged it all."
"I just found a large banknote in my bag, I suppose OW 2 could have left it for me, she did owe me money."
And various other references, like jokes she had told him etc.
He mentioned his house being very cold and told me of a huge heating bill he had had last winter. Well, months ago he told me OW 2 had a habit of never turing off lights and things and he always had to go after her and do it. (I used to be the one turning off stuff after him!)
So it seems to me that OW 2 was an expense for him in many ways, but he has used me to vent his spleen on in when his finances weren't too good.
But all these references to OW 2 were very casual, without an element of complaining or anything. Then, he mentioned perhaps doing a project in her country next year. It sounds like she has left living here, but things might not be completely over between them. Why else make such a big deal of there not being anything between us?
Then he told D something about "when he moves to his new place.... but it won't be anytime soon".
Another time he made a joke about how he would probably end up being at his present place five years from now.
He talked about being scared that he was only a few years away from being fifty years old. How the back of his hands looked old. He wanted me to look at a spot at the back of his neck that he was worried about (it looked like a pimple to me...)
All the while I just listened with little comment, or said something and joked if it was appropriate.
I diffused one potentially bad situation. I came out of the room on Saturday afternoon after a short lie down to find H banging the pots in the sink, doing the washing up. He was energetically scouring my non-stick pan with an abrasive scourer. I started to tell him he needed to use the other one, when he turned around with a look of intense irritation and anger at me.
I thought, here we go, another scene from our marriage about to be played out? But I slowed down, put my hand on his back, said "Look, I am not criticising you, but I am requesting you to use the other sponge. That scourer shouldn't really be out there, it is only for stubborn stuff on the metal pans, it ruins everything else. There's the other sponge." Then I turned around and went and sat on the sofa, even though I was itching to go in and sort out the mess in the kitchen and intrefere. So he carried on normally after that. I guess by being explicit that I wasn't criticising him and almost saying it was my fault for leaving the abrasive sponge out, he didn't take it personally.
Here are the dos and don'ts - ------------------------------------------ Remember, Livnlearn, NO PRESSURE! I didn't put any pressure on him that I am aware of
Don't ask H if he has made his dermatologist's appointment yet. Didn't ask about that. He mentioned his spots and being concerend about them. I was concerned, but didn't badger him or mother him.
Don't ask if he has made plans/bookings to go to my country of origin. I didn't mention his trip. He said it would probably be sometime next year now. That's if he didn't go somewhere else before that (that set off alarm bells re: OW 2 in her country) but then H finished with "Not that I have any big plans". (H has plans... )
Take an interest in his project. I asked how it was coming on. He said he would work on it the following two weeks. Said he hadn't yet got bored and lonely enough for him to be driven to it! (OW 2 has only been gone since Thursday)
Laugh and smile a lot. I did for the most part, except for a couple of times, like this morning.
Think before speaking! I did. Didn't say anything about his going to see a film, though in the past I would have had LOTS to say!! I diffused the washing up situation too.
Don't unload onto him my worries and difficulties with D - done that once already this week, got to ration that stuff! Not really. He got to see how diffiuclt D can be regarding homework. I mentioned that it had been a difficult week with her, without going into details. He of course left without having her finish all her homework, she is sitting doing it right now, as they have today off school.
Enjoy! To the extent possible. It felt like a strain at times. With H telling me there is nothing in it for us, I feel like every time I laugh or joke, he thinks it is just a ruse to get him to like me or come back to me, he is holding me at arm's length, which is wearying and not natural, not even what you would do with a friend.
I think my main problem with this whole weekend, is that he has made use of me once again. During HIS visitation weekend with D, I still have to get her to do most of the homework, he gets to see a film without us, I get to do the most work regarding cooking and washing up, and I didn't do what I had planned. I can't take the advice that I just go out and do my own thing while H is here, I just feel that he would use the place even more like a hotel than he already does, cause then we would't owe me any consideration at all.
Also, I am tired of being weary and tired and grief stricken, I really am. Maybe I am just not cut out to be happy and merry with an H around who is so expicit about there being NO HOPE bwtween us. Making it so obvious how little he cares.
I think I need to pull back, just for myself and my own sanity. I need to drop the rope. I need to not care too much what H is up to at all, I need to get a life all right.
I need to make sure he takes the responsibility of taking D when it's his turn. I need to be less available to him to take up the slack. Have I been at this place before? Yes I have, I do not want to go over old ground again and again.
I do not want to get into the same old same old again -
I am a doormat. I get hurt and feel used. I pull back, H turns nasty. H apologises eventually. I am once again a doormat.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
It sounds to me like going dark would really benefit you. You could build up your PMA and self-affirming behaviors, and H can stop treating you like you live and breathe by his schedule.
How about letting him talk to your D when he wants to change the schedule?
H: I was wondering, there's a movie I want to see that will nake me two hours late to pick up D tomorrow. LnL: Well, here's D, you can tell her yourself. Let me know what you two decide.
AND, Ellie's advice about going out while he's there is brilliant. Just leave him. If he's going to treat you like a hotel, then act like a hotel. Here's the key, see you later.
Quote: I'm curious - if you met H through friends for the first time, how would you find him? How do you think he'd find you?
Well, if we are talking about last weekend, I would not have been impressed by H. I would have found him arrogant and selfish, mostly.
I would have found myself a little lacklustre too. Drawn looking, tired, downbeat. I had had a hard week with D, with her school meeting, lots of cancellations and no shows with students, somehow everything conspiring to be negative, and my patience wearing thin, I didn't lose my cool or anything, just felt WEARY. I didn't start out the weekend like that, it just got that way after the lack of response from H, I guess.
Can't believe that the person that I loved for so long and who loved me could be behaving like that cold distant person in front of me, but yet content to be in my home. Being so close to our daughter but shunning me. There's no worse rejection, except the rejection of one's kids, perhaps.
And the knowledge that anything too positive or friendly from my side will be interpreted at trying to get H back, and therefore as sly and not kosher as far as H is concerned. Like being too much fun is "pursuing".
Any ideas?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: AND, Ellie's advice about going out while he's there is brilliant. Just leave him. If he's going to treat you like a hotel, then act like a hotel. Here's the key, see you later
I had H in my home looking after D for some days earlier this year when I was away visiting my family in another country. He had OW 2 to stay a couple of nights. I cannot let that happen again, I felt so disrespected. H never apologised for it when I told him I knew, but defended her.
I also changed the lock on the front door some months ago, I don't want to hand him my front door keys again while I am not there. I needed to draw the line about my private space. I personally think that if someone is staying in my house, then they socialise with me, not with others.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I still think you could benefit from a little LRT. If he is saying there's "no hope," and taking any joking or friendly behavior as reason to pull back, then I'd do a 180 and go dark. Not rude, or shutting him out, but just unavailable.
LnL- you're missing the point here. H is there to spend the night - spending time with D - you tell him you have a "date" that evening and will be back later. He doesn't need a key - he's going to be watching D at your home while you're on your "date". He's going to (finally) get a chance to wonder what YOU are doing without him. He's going to see that you are taking him at his word and NOT reading anything into him being there. And if you don't give him much warning, I doubt very much that he would invite an OW over when you'll be back at some indeterminate time later in the evening.
More likely, he'll wonder about the aftershave on your clothes and the alcohol on your breath and the sexy dress you wore out the door!
Having tired of umbrella drinks and in need of new adventures and stronger libations, I decided to check in on the landlubbers. Bleary eyed I have read your last few months postings and fortunately, I have a large 2x4 at the ready - Whack, whack, whack!
My dear woman! Please join me by stepping out from this passive/aggressive dynamic. Take a day and review your posts. You need a few 'you only' days. You are blessed with great advice from Ellie, Betsey and slowly to name a few. I'd hate to put you in the brig for not listening to them.
The one word I would use to sum up H right now, is GRACELESS. There were some moments last weekend, where he really did seem without any grace.
He picked up a book of the Ten Commandments that D has. I bought it for her years ago. I was brought up Christian, but I am an atheist now. So is H. However, I do not think there is nothing of worth in the Bible, and I also happen to think that if D is growing up in a Christian (Western) culture, then she needs to be aware of the religious context and be familiar with well known Bible stories and teachings.
So anyway, H starts reading out the commandments to D in a mock portentious voice, asking D if she does any of these things. He asks her, do you honour your parents? Do you honour Mummy? She joins in on the joke, and says, NO! There you go, says H.
Hmmmmm.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
LNL--I'm with Ellie on this one. Co-parenting means just that. It's high time your H had some responsibility there and it's also high time you just decided to move forward in your own life. Just do it! I'm quite sure that you have a plethora of ideas on what you can do to amuse yourself without being responsible for D or H...
And quit worrying about the OWomen! Act AS IF you don't give a rat's a$$ about them. I'm gonna venture a guess here and say I think that's HIS passive-aggressive way of pushing your buttons. So don't give him a reaction. ANY reaction.
Dazed--Where the heck have you been? I'm up in Hopefulness now... would you mind coming back more often? I've been wondering how my favorite "pool boy" has been.
Take care you two. LNL, have fun!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
It sounds like she has left living here, but things might not be completely over between them. Why else make such a big deal of there not being anything between us?
) 
Betsey