i'd like to share some things about this subject and would enjoy getting feedback from people.
of course i'm speaking from the perspective of my own situation (W is LD i'm HD) my perspective is really that of a H of an extroverted (focus on the external world, non-reflective) LD,assertive W.
because i'm male i have desire anytime my system is triggered: revealing outfit, attractive woman, soft porn, etc. it doesn't mean i want to have sex it just means that i'm aware in a peripheral way of the state.
If i focus on that state conciously, then it is far more likely i'll become aroused.
In Michele's book SSM she talks about new research indicating that, in some women desire follows arousal instead of what society teaches us is normal. i would imagine if this is the case then to my wife desire=arousal=sex. In fact, i'd bet she doesn't have any distinction between desire and arousal.
So when i say to her "i'd like you to desire me more" she interprets that as "he wants me to be aroused more" which then brings on "see i knew this conversation was about sex". that's all he ever wants. Why can't he just let me be".
Of course this brings out the following reactions:
1. the tv goes on 2. the latest book comes out from under the bed. 3. the tetris game goes on.
Well since i want to improve my relationship, it really does start with communication skills. So i've stopped saying to her "i want" desire phrases.
What i will do is be more specific and only bring the subject up when she is aroused since this is more likelly to bring the desired behaviour.
There are a few threads on the HDH - LDW where the key is desire. I think I called it willing not wanting in which the H wants more desire, not just more sex. One of the keys I think is that the W dosen't understand that just because we are aroused dosen't redily translate into good sex.
Some more thougths on the desire - arousal aspect of the relationship, and yes these are all things I have discussed on here before...
The problem that I have in my relationship with the desire - arousal aspect is that my W does get desire AFTER arousal, what this leads to is either me getting her aroused to the point where the sex becomes about her (hey I love to give to but...) and she has an O and wants to sleep / relax / etc. or it becomes about me, with her not too interested (pity sex). What my R is lacking is the desire, or even call it foreplay from her as part of our ML.
Something just dawned on me...I wonder if some of the LD (not all by any means) know what "desire" or "want" means...literally.
I was just thinking about a convo my LDH and I had very recently where I told him he never has to wonder if I "want" him...he looked at me kind of confused...so I explained that I'm always the one to initiate sex, so he always knows I find him physically attractive. He never does that with me...so how am I supposed to know that he "wants" or "desires" me? That rung a bell with him...saying "desire" or "want" to him was like speaking another language.
Breaking it down the way I did to him seemed to make things a bit clearer...I don't know that it will make any permanent difference, but it did seem to hit a light switch at the time.
I've had those moments too with my wife where we'll be having a conversation and i say i want x, and she will be stunned and then have a bewildered look on her face...
one time i said to her that i wanted us to be close and be able to discuss our vulnerabilities (the male part of me is definitely complainig now) and she said in a low voice i guess if i had any i would tell you about them..
not sure what the first line means. i'm not very good at using this online forum yet. maybe i accidentally posted in the wrong spot or clicked on the wrong button.
as to the rest of your response, it sounds like about 95% to mine.
i have a question though. what if the LD spouse is simply unable to respond emotionally to our reguest?? In my case, there is still enough there for me to hang around and try something else or evaluate my viewpoint.
I posted the following a while back, it will give you my perspective,
I think there is a group of HD spouses (mostly men I think) that have the same situation that I’m in. Let’s call it the Loving, willing, but not wanting spouse. Let me try to define the situation and see if I’m right about my guess that there are a lot of people in the same situation as me. I have a few threads on the board that give more details.
-Loving relationship, my relationship is loving where we both respect each other and in my case my Wife truly is my best friend. I don’t know how some of you put up with the sexual problems combined with the mental or physical abuse. I do look forward to being with my wife, and want better sex WITH her, not just better sex.
-Sexual Relationship, in our marriage I am defiantly the HD spouse where the D is desire. We do have frequency that could be better but the major problem is the quality and passion in our sexual relationship not just frequency.
Desire – Arousal – Sex, My W seldom is never aroused until we begin physical stimulation Once she gets aroused her level of desire does go up but at that point the goal is more bringing her to an O (which she usually does). I have told her that anticipation, teasing, foreplay etc. would help me with having more fulfilling sex. I still wonder if she realizes that there are different levels of pleasure for a guy, just because he ejaculates doesn’t equate to great sex.
-Disproportional Effort, in our relationship most of the effort in continuing the romance and trying to spice things up comes primarily from me. Things like fun weekends, special day events (B-days, anniversary etc.) come almost exclusively from me. Usually they have a big build up (unrealistic hopes?) that results in a let down. As I have said we kid that I have become the chick in the relationship.
-Willing spouse, My W is willing to have sex but seldom initiates. If she does it is usually more of an invitation than an action. She as read SSM, this led to some very good discussions, but little follow up. Other books, fun gifts, sexy clothes, go un used or forgotten quickly. I have made suggestions and tried to help her with ideas that would make sex for me much more fulfilling, seldom get follow up.
-Understands my frustration, I have told her how frustrated it is with she had higher desire, and how simple things could make our sex life much more fulfilling to both of us, and how this could make a good emotional relationship even better. She understands in principal but doesn’t understand how important this is to work on.
-Working on change, I have brought up the idea of working on the relationship, setting aside times or days to try new things, again willing to discuss it but little or no follow up continuing my frustration.
What would I want? To have a level of passion and desire as part of our sex life, to have this be part of our relationship, and to feel like we are both having fun while pleasuring each other. Simple eh
Understand that the grass is always greener. . . . You said
Quote: What would I want? To have a level of passion and desire as part of our sex life, to have this be part of our relationship, and to feel like we are both having fun while pleasuring each other.
At this point, I would settle for merely having a "sex life." Maybe after having that for a while, I might want to fine tune the desire, passion, fun settings a bit. It's been since early August for me...which was the second time in 2004 we had made love. I'm about ready to chew my leg off.
