I feel your pain... I'll bet all you got last night was frustrated. Only I figured the booby prize would be a whole closet full of unopened "marital aids",LOL . I know in our household with all them rugrats, money does not stay around long enough to accumulate in closets.
FWIW, I've tried "dirty talk" w/ W, and she also puts the kabosh on it. Difference here is she doesn't get all lovey dovey at all. There are no shows of affection unless I initiate. From what I know of her upbringing, there was no affection there either, so perhaps it is a case of what you grew up with. SHe also won't admit to having any twinges of physical desire except as a result of direct stimulation
Thanks for the reference to C. West. I must have somehow missed when you last posted it. I'll wait to see how Mrs GGB feels after the WWME weekend before bringing up any more seminars. She's still balking, although she's committed to going. I'll be sure to let you know how the ME weekend goes.
--GGB, to whom a little lovey dovey from Mrs GGB would go a long way toward filling his love tank even if LM was involved.
Blind, Has she ever said what her reluctance is all about? That has me so curious! I mean, I've always heard it is a good program...and how can something designed to BETTER your marriage be a bad thing?
Well, I also grew up in a household devoid of affection. My parents never hugged or held me. My mother said "I love you" for the FIRST TIME EVER to me when I was 40.
My God, when you put a kitten or a puppy in someone's lap, the natural thing to do is pet it! I think you have to consciously resist doing that! But I guess that's what my mother did when she bottle-fed me by taking the bottle out of the refrigerator and propping it-- ice-cold-- on my stomach. She and my father used to get a kick out of telling this story. "Well, she didn't seem to mind!" they would say of me. Yikes!
No, I've asked her several times why she is hesitant, what she is afraid of etc. She usually changes the subject. I don't want to hound her too much about it, after all she is going. I can't understand her reluctance. Her best friend highly recommended it, and like I mentioned before offered (unsolicited) to watch all 5 kids for the weekend so that we could go, and got us all the contact info etc. I would think that such a ringing endorsement from someone she is that close to (they talk at least twice a day) would make her be the one pushing to go.
--GGB who even after all these years (18), isn't sure he knows his wife at all.
OMG, that sounds like my in-laws. When we were dating, they were doing foster care (God only knows why, there was no affection for those kids), and the way you describe feeding is EXACTLY what I saw them doing.
HP wrote: ------------ Not only did he not want sex but he wouldn't even touch me all night long. He would move his body close to mine but would NOT touch me. Especially with his hands. Once his leg or something did come in contact with me but he does this bizarre thing where he positions his body so that no part of his comes in contact with any part of mine and yet we are physically close enough to be considered snuggling. Sortof like our heads are close but our bodies are in a V shape. ------------
Another gentle nudge - he is running your sex life through his religious filters.
Ask him which one of these is not true.
a) It is okay to desire sex with my wife.
b) It is okay to enjoy passionate love making.
c) It is okay to think about having sex with my wife throughout the day.
d) It is okay to lust for my wife.
e) It is okay to be turned on without doing something about it.
Honey, in many posts, you have indicated that your husband is an extremely devoted catholic. He has even been somewhat misdirected considering leaving the marriage 'for God' so to speak.
Your husband obviously has a strong sense of familial responsibility, but obviously, even that can sometimes be supplanted by his desire to be a good catholic.
I suspect that regardless of the number of conversations regarding sex/religion/marriage that you have had, that he still takes religion 'to bed with him'.
Does he really know that God doesn't have a problem with marital sex? What the two of you do with each other sex wise, as long as it is not destructive, is okay. Does he understand that includes lusting for his wife? Is he hung up on the perception of 'lust' as it pertains to the mother of his children?
I have read everything you have written here, HP. I do agree that your hubby is a good guy. I also agree that he may have some lower drive issues. I also think that there is a significant religious overtone to his sexual interactions with you. I suspect that those 'overtones' are having a larger impact on your relationship than you realize.
Just something to consider....
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NOP, Perhaps you are right. I am only going off what he says to me and yet it is quite obvious that a person whose religion permeates everything they do would say, "No I do not think that it is sinful to desire your wife.." all the while doing just that, huh.
Truthfully I think it is his personality--very compartmentalized, a little rigid, easily thrown off by everyday stressors, etc.
Here are my answers for you to dissect.
Quote: a) It is okay to desire sex with my wife. Yes.
b) It is okay to enjoy passionate love making. Yes
c) It is okay to think about having sex with my wife throughout the day. Absolutlely not. I am at work and that is just inappropriate. Plus, what is the point? It's not like I can do anything about it. And...sputter..sputter...what if my BOSS were to come up and I have a hardon?!
d) It is okay to lust for my wife. Yes, if it is the right time.
e) It is okay to be turned on without doing something about it. Why would anyone do that?
To answer your other questions, Yes he knows that God does not have a problem with marital sex and he would SAY that lusting for his wife is fine but there is a time and a place for such activities....aaaaaaaaaaand since we have little kids, the times and places are considerably diminished. (forget the fact that our sex life was in the tubes before D5 was even conceived)
I agree that his religious hangups are not completely gone. How can they be? His earliest foundation of sexuality was formed by people who thought it was dirty, horrible, etc. However, I don't know that it runs his thoughts these days. Certain times I can see him struggling with it..such as when I have suggested we ML in the mornings. He gets up very early so that he can attend Mass every day and I can see him struggling with the thought of ML to me right before he heads off to church. Most other times, though, I see a person who has a healthy view of sex--at least as far as it pertaining to religion.
He is TERRIBLY naive, though, about relationships. I was his first girlfriend at 27 (due in large part to his overbearing mother and his reluctance to date in 'front of her') and he sometimes talks very childish when talking about R's. Now, I'm only 33 so I don't propose to be an expert, lol, but I would never say some of the stuff he does--such as, If a person has a close enough relationship with God they could never have an affair. That is overlooking the most basic spiritual principle of them all: namely that we are all sinners and none of us is above doing something heinous.
As far as the Mommy thing goes, I don't think he struggles with this in my non-pg state. If anything, his struggle is with being a MAN (and having sexual urges) while our kids are present and awake. He sees this as highly inappropriate. So it's not so much me being a mother as it is him being a father. Cause you know I have no problem being the gal who colors, cuts and pastes all day and yet still wouldn't mind a good squeeze to the bits in between.
You wanna know what I really think about the V shaped snuggling? I think he was afraid that if he touched me anywhere, he'd get aroused and we'd end up having sex. For some reason (knowing him, TIREDNESS) he decided that he didn't want sex--despite his enthusiastic response from earlier--and wanted to make sure that I got the message. Also, I believe that he feels manipulated if I use my body to get him aroused in bed, after he has already made up his mind. He is right to feel this way because I DO try to manipulate him into having sex with me by draping my body across his or whatever. So it is not as if I am without fault here--but it still feels awful to know that he is intentionally avoiding me on a night when he appeared to be on board with it earlier.
I think he is hung up on propriety and everything having a time and a place, etc. At this particular stage of life for us, there IS no time and place for anything except raising our little ones. They are so time consuming right now; there is literally no time left for anything except them. It is a short time frame in our lives but at the same time why establish a pattern where there is no intimacy and closeness between us? How much harder would it be to reconnect in, say, 5 yrs when things have settled down?
I don't know..the bottom line is that I am not willing to be a roommate until the kids get older. He must meet me halfway. I know I ask a lot of him (provide for me and the kids, help around the house, be a good dad and a good lover).
Oh and I do realize that you told me to ask HIM those questions and I will. I had to add that in cause I knew you'd bust me on it.
would be a whole closet full of unopened "marital aids",LOL 
