So last night S. and I went to the ballet with my friends, a couple. We had a good time and I was focusing on giving S. lots of PT, attention, and some WOA. AND I paid for dinner, pre-empting some money tension over who bought the tickets (he did). Lots of smiling, per H2H's advice. I realize that when I'm with him sometimes, I'm so intent on doing or saying the right thing for the R that I forget to smile! Last night started out like that, because I was tense from the last few days of interactions, but I was able to pull myself out of it and laugh and smile a lot.
I have been back and forth with H2H over e-mail about this, but I read an e-mail from S. to his female friend (not Swiss Miss) in Switz that his "love life was a mess, as always." Not only that, but he didn't mention me, and this woman doesn't know we're back together. She knows Swiss Miss, and I'm wondering if he isn't telling her about me because he doesn't want her to tell SM. Now, he could be being nice, because he doesn't want SM to hear it from someone else, but it sure stings that this woman, who is an old friend from college, hears nothing about what is supposedly the most important R in his life. One thing she suggested in her reply, that I hope he hears loud and clear, is to try some THERAPY.
I'm having a hard time with this - it could have been his reaction from the last few days of tension, or a bigger concern. So I'm trying to concentrate on making things better. Tomorrow we go up to Vermont for four days, and as usual it will be a good time to bond on QT, and a time to be careful not to let triggers interfere. H2H has already reminded me about the car ride home - no R talk, no money talk. I think I'll bring the Chile guidebook and read aloud from it.
I think this w-e will have a lot of important R talk, actually. We've been saving it up for awhile. At least we'll have our LL talk.
Ugh. Love life is a mess, huh? Not sure what to make of it. Why would he say that to someone he corresponds with fewer than 4 times a year?
I'm popping in for just a day, but my comments are pretty straightforward and you've heard them so many times before.
1) S appears to have a serious problem with true commitment. Intellectually, he can grasp the concept and even admire it, but he doesn't seem ready to accept it. For the moment, it seems his notion of commitment to him is having you on his terms only. As we both know, true commitment, especially marital involves mutual giving and an ongoing desire to give.
2) In this light, when S mentions that his love life is a mess, I suspect as you must know in your heart that this is more about him than about you. His doubts about you--which he must have because he is human--only feed into his confused notion of commitment and cause him to wonder if he's making the right choice. I think there's a real fear of losing his independence (and youth as you've noted) because he has lived a certain life for so many years and is avoiding the natural consquences of your R. Thus, while I believe he loves you, it's as much in the romantic sense than the marital sense and he simply can't cross the divide. Having one of his good FF getting a D can't help his views of the next step.
3) I can't explain why S is acting the way he is with your other FF friend, other than to say that it is a manifestation of his inability to truly commit to you. Basically, he's subconciously or even actively looking to place buffers and obstacles between your R and its future. These seemingly innocent obstacles remove the burden from him from actually addressing where your R is headed. AND YOU ARE NOT WRONG TO OBJECT. If there is a notion of exclusivity in your R, certain old relationships and new ones must take a back seat or even be eliminated for the sake of the primary R.
4) S is an organized thinker who focusses on assets and liabilities. I often advise others to view their M's as balance sheets with many assets and liabilities (please distinguish this from Marriage Builders Love Bank). In a true committed mutual-love R, the bottom line should always be positive because the assets outweigh the liabilities. But make no mistake, there are significant liabilites in terms of giving of oneself, loss of total freedom, and the assumption of responsibilities we just as soon not fulfill. Human nature tends to focus on these liabilites, and for some, it does so to the point where the assets and positive net worth become totally obscured. DBing is as much about managing the liabilities as it is increasing the assets.
I know you don't like to push, but maybe your QT time in Vermont can afford an opportunity to explore more philisophical questions on your R and R's in general--BUT DON'T DO IT IN THE CAR. Each of you needs an escape route if necessary.
One thing I guarantee: you won't get the same reaction that I got from your advice!!!! Be good!
OK. I’m about to scream. S. is such a rigid, bull-headed @ss these days that I can’t even see straight. We are trying to get ready to go to Vermont, and he is acting like it is a HUGE favor to me that (a) I am packing the car and driving it into Manhattan to pick him up from work (b) that I am ALLOWED to bring a project (an antique table I am restoring) of mine along with us, that may or may not fit in the car on the way back (and which we can leave up there for two weeks until we go back up for Thanksgiving) and (c) that he even took 30 seconds this morning to speak to me about anything at all.
We just got into a heated discussion about those 3 seconds, thus taking 10 minutes to discuss how he doesn’t have time to talk to me about something for 30 seconds. ARRRRRGH!!!!!
I told him that I felt such an amazing amount of rigidity coming from him, and he said it was because HE was trying to get ready to go, etc., and I said that he is acting like he is going up there all by himself all the time, and I happen to be going along for the ride. It drives me crazy. I considered not going this trip, and letting him get his lumberjacking ya-yas out by himself, but H2H convinced me to go and get some bonding time in, which I agreed on, but THIS is too much. This morning I feel like I’m imposing on him again, and that my going along is just pursuing him into his cave. UGH. He even said to me this morning “Your asking me to look at your table feels like an imposition, when I’m trying to think about what I need to do.” And I wasn’t even asking him for anything but a quick opinion! AND I didn't insist that it be NOW... it really was a 30-second endeavor.
People, you can point out my failings in this conversation all you want. But I have to say right now that he was being an insufferable, rigid @ss and I won’t back down on that. I can pick him up from work, be cheerful, and act as if later, but now I am FUMING. If I didn’t think it would send him over the edge if I backed out of the trip, I would, because I think I need my own cave time. But since I'm comitted, I just need to take a bunch of stuff for myself, to work on, to read, and yes, my table.
I ended up just chopping off the conversation and getting out of there. I know he is sitting there fuming at me, but I do hope he will reflect on his *&^%$#!@ bullheadedness and feel sheepish about it.
UGH! UGH! UGH! I am so furious!
Merrick, if you’re listening, thank you for your thoughts. I have no patience to respond to any of them right now, but I agree with a lot of what you say. I am beginning to wonder how to deal with someone who has been single for 40 years – if he can ever see his way to a life with someone else in the mix. He certainly was thinking of himself all alone today – HIS needs, HIS desires, and HIS WAY, and all else be damned. I wonder if I should just say this to him, tell him of my concerns of his ability to think of himself in a real partnership, or if HIS needs will always come first. So far, it seems they do, most of the time. It's times like this when I feel like leaving him.
J - I must say, I'm still not very clear on what happened here except that he was busy and a little anxious about getting everything done to get out of town and you were personalizing everything and major-league crazymaking! What's behind this, do you think? What is it that's REALLY bothering you?
Sage - no offense taken - I meant for it to be funny!
Ellie, I think what is REALLY bothering me is that he was acting like a stubborn, selfish @ss! Sorry, but I don't agree with you. Sometimes, yes, I am crazymaking, and sometimes he is just acting like a jerk. This is one of those times. He decided to dig in his heels, rather than hearing what I was asking of him (literally, 30 seconds, not necessaily NOW, but before we leave), when I am the one who is actually going to be running around going into the office, running errands, packing the car, packing the coolers, getting ready to go for far more hours that he is today.
I don't see it as anything but selfishness and downright rigidity on his part. He is annoyed that I want to take my table (for no reason - it's no skin off his nose), he's been giving me excuses for why I shouldn't bring it for days now, and so anything to do with the table, which was what the 30 seconds were about, he is going to shut me down.
And I don't appreciate being treated that way.
But thanks for your input - other opinions are always appreciated. I'm the first to admit when I'm being dense or laspng into old behaviors, but this time ain't one of 'em.
Quote: He is annoyed that I want to take my table (for no reason - it's no skin off his nose), he's been giving me excuses for why I shouldn't bring it for days now
Well - clearly he has SOME reason why he doesn't want you to bring it. Maybe he doesn't want your attention distracted from him by this project? maybe he's afraid it will be messy and mess up his VT. place? Maybe he doesn't like the stupid table and thinks it's ugly? Maybe he's actually taking you to the Bahamas for a surprise and it won't fit on the plane? (okay - I admit my imagination ran a little wild with that one ).
Whatever the reason - he's probably thinking YOU'RE being rigid because you keep insisting on bringing the table !!!
As for there not being anything else bothering you -
Quote: I read an e-mail from S. to his female friend (not Swiss Miss) in Switz that his "love life was a mess, as always." Not only that, but he didn't mention me, and this woman doesn't know we're back together. She knows Swiss Miss, and I'm wondering if he isn't telling her about me because he doesn't want her to tell SM.
I don't know, if it was me, this would probably be subconsciously eating away at me and causing me to Act As If my H were a jerk - which, of course, always triggers them to behave like jerks! (I think it has something to do with string theory ).
Well, you’re right that something is bothering me OUTSIDE of the fact that S. is acting like a jerk.
We have been sniping at each other all week, with tension running high, etc. So yes, that is bothering me. But yesterday, in e-mails with another DB buddy, I vowed to make it my mission to do damage control. I had actually been sending him sweet e-mails at work, and this morning when I called I made it clear that I didn’t want to get in his way, that I just wanted to come over and take a look at the table to see if it would fit in the car.
You see, he has his own projects in Vermont, and I was taking the table so that I would have something to do while he is out all day doing his own thing. So no, the table will not distract my attention from him – quite the opposite. I’m not sure why he doesn’t want me to take the table, except that this morning he said something about it being like when I bought it and he was pissed to have to be involved. I wasn’t asking for his involvement, actually, and reiterated that to him. He continued to act like a butthead.
Anyway, I don’t deny that other things are bothering me. But I am still sticking by my guns that his reaction today, and the way he treated me, was crappy. And I can DB with the best of ‘em, but I’m not going to chalk up that kind of crap to what could have been bothering ME.
Today is a cooling off period, because we’re both at work (and I’m running our errands all day), and so tonight when I go get him, I can act as if, turn on the radio, and ease on down the road.
I am not one for astrology, but MF has been posting hers, and so I got curious. Just for fun, here’s my Cainercast for today:
When things are easy we forget they were ever difficult. Everything feels just right in a very natural, reassuring way. Our memories of more awkward experiences rapidly fade. 'Ah,' we sigh, 'at last, things are as they should be. Let's hope they stay this way forever.' But, of course, they don't. Indeed sometimes, they get worse more quickly when we start to worry about them getting worse! This weekend brings a rare, precious gift. Don't look it in the mouth. And don't worry how long it will last. Just appreciate it.
And here’s S’s:
We all want to be wanted. Unless we feel that too many people want things from us. Then we want not to be wanted. Maybe, too, if this is the case, we realize that it was our own need to be needed that got us into the situation in the first place. So, now we want... not to want to be wanted. But, of course, we don't want to be not wanted. We want... not to be not wanted, but not to be not wanted. Are you following? Well, take the weekend to chew it over. Meanwhile, you can expect, this weekend, to get what you want.
not a 
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