History and the beginning of the problems Me/H=61, Her/W=63, M=1968, D=1970, S=1972, Built current home 1974, Me/H=auto mechanic since 1960 to 1987. College 1987 to 1990 Office equipment repairs since 1992. W=nurse 1964 to 1968, stay at home mom 1970 to 1980, part time to 1987, nursing school 1987 to 1989, hospital 1989 to 2003, then retired 2003.
Short version Started out being a team. W and I wanted more so I worked more. W felt neglected. I had back and eventually employment problems from working too much, W had to work, lost her knight in shining armor. W, got into “women's issues.” W, views money as “spend what you have.” Me, have enough for a rainy day. W, “I want.” Me “I fix.” W, the more pets the merrier.” Me, All pets have to be house broken. W, pet accidents happen. Me, I do not want to live in a “pet out house” inside our home. Back to W saying “its my money.” Me, $12,000 in a year on TV “shopping channel” stuff and other things we already have? Your crazy, woman! W, I’m leaving, am buying a no maintenance Condo. Me, Take what you need, and please take all of the pets. Do not call me to fix anything. TV or remote gets locked up. W cannot get TV to work. None of her calculators add correctly according to her. They all work for me????? Me, read several books DB, DR 5LL,Dr Laura, Internet. W, why all of those wacky, crack pot books? Me, started doing things for and by myself. W, accused me of having a homosexual relationship with old male work friend. Me, kept PMA, kept doing small things for W, spent more time rubbing her feet / etc. W, acting like sponge, taking it all in. W, started to want to be closer than in last 5 years, Me, keep PMA, no telling her what is wrong with M. Even ML once in a while. W, invites me to sleep in her room sometimes if I use my CPAP (reduces snoring and arrested breathing events while sleeping). Me, some nights I sleep with her and the dogs / cat. Still feel like I am 3rd. on her list at times. Me, still reading, I have PMA, I do little acts of service/ touch, no more saying what is wrong with M, quit doing and or giving till nothing left to give, not demanding or expecting much in return. More relaxed feeling in household. Me, not asking W “do you want to do X Y or Z.” Stating I would like to X, Y, or Z. Me, discovered W does not like wimpy or controlling men, likes a man with goals. W still skeet shooting ( my ideas or wants get rejected often). Me, more differentiated, hold on to myself (HOM) more so her opinion or rejection does not hurt as much.
Long version if you want the details from my side of the relationship.
I always had a full-time + part time job. W said I ignored her / worked too much. I always heard "we need______" so I found a way to earn extra money to buy the things she talked about.
I had a back injury 1981 and 1986. Things started to go down hill / not the strong "can do" person anymore. I had to change careers so I went to college. W went to nursing school, (her occupation prior to M) got a job in the mental health field taking care of patient’s needs and medications.
W worked in Co-dependency department for a while. The center taught the patients to be independent and not let anyone manipulate them. I called it the "Me School of Thought / Women's Issues Training Camp." Most of the clients were female.
In college, I listened to several women who were into the women's issues and they would let you know if you did or expected typical 50's gender rolls behaviors. I agreed with most of the women and learned how difficult it was for a few women to be Mrs. Cleaver. I also saw some women wanted equal rights most of the time, but also wanted preferential treatment in some situations. Some wanted it both ways according to their particular need or whim at the time. W kind of slipped in this role too
Spending Patterns We both spent too much money before the back injury. I backed off spending because I could not work all of the extra hours anymore. W always seemed to be comfortable buying things on credit. W still had the "we need______" mentality. Because she used to complain, that I worked too much and ignored her I decided not to listen to the "We Need_____." anymore. "Mostly because buying things never seemed to satisfy her wants and I saw how it contributed to her feelings of being ignored when I found extra work to pay off the credit card. I had that “shopped out feeling."
Shopping List Since moving into the house, we had 5 beds ( last one $2,500 ), 4 or 5 refrigerators, 3 freezers (daughter still has 2nd freezer), 3 cook stoves, 4 sofa /chair sets, 4 recliner chair, recent very good 32" TV upgraded to 47" projection TV, 5 VCR's, 3 DVD players, 4 Stereo tape/CD player systems, 2 hot tubs, 2 ski machines, 2 exercise bikes, and so on. None of the old items were ever worn out. She wants 90% of the things that come into our house. I got tired of having garage sales to get rid of the old stuff to make room for the new stuff " We Had" because the "We" in garage sale work was mostly “me.” So if I was not getting much help in the disposal end, something had to change.
I took a pick-up load of clothes, a pick-up load of furniture, and a pick-up load of slightly used exercise equipment to the Good Will Store. She can buy the things but "I" have to find a home for them when she gets tired of the things she buys
The Zoo W has 4 dogs, ( 18#, 22#, 65# & 125#) 3 birds, had 6 cats and 1 fish. We can't go anywhere more than 4 or 5 hours; someone has to let the dogs out before they urinate in the living room or the bedroom. I do not have a problem with having “A” dog, “A” cat and “A” bird. Even having a couple of one type of animal is OK, but the zoo is too much. I am afraid to go in the pet store. Last time "We" went to get a litter box, she had to have the 125# dog. Nice dog, he even thinks he is a lap dog. Very loving dog, but even having steak and lobster for every meal becomes a problem. BTW 3 cats died recently of old age / cancer, W said she would not replace them. Some progress I am thankful for.
Od D'pue ( My version of stinks ) One cat urinated on all of the carpets except in my room. I snore so W sleeps in the other bedroom. W had a hard time smelling anything bad except on days above 90 degrees. I asked W to find a home for the cat that was urinating on carpets. She said she did not know which cat was urinating on the carpets and did not want to do anything until she was 100% sure she found the culprit. I waited for 4 months for W to do something. Nothing happened so I paid the animal shelter $100 to take the cat "I thought" was responsible for the bad smell in the house. Cat was also chewing electrical cords and ruined about 4 power transformers that power small electronic equipment.
It was the cat or me. I reasoned I should not be the one to leave, it’s my house. I picked the most likely culprit correctly. Other cats peeing, but not as much. W was Ok with my decision, she just did not want to do it herself I guess.
I had to remove the carpets because it smelled so bad. We had particleboard floors for a while. I installed laminate flooring in most of the area where the carpet was removed. Steps to living room still in plain wood. W's complaint is " It takes too long to complete projects." She is correct. I work, cook, and problem solve around the house, W is “retired.” W does not do ladder stuff, paint, and on and on, and most of the windows are “too hard” to clean according to her.
“It's my money! You need psychiatric help” W has been buying from QVC (TV shopping Channel for all of you out there) for several years. Last year I added her invoices for 2003. The total was $5,200. The year before she spent $2,500 and about $2,200 the year before that. I called QVC to see if they had a shopping addiction program for the buyers and a spousal program like Al Anon for the non spending spouse. QVC, did not think spending money was a problem and said there was no shopping addiction program.
We have so many kitchen appliances and most never get used more than a couple of times. She only cooks one or two meals a week. I do the rest or I take her out. She was working 2.1/2 days a week. Sometimes, on her work days, W would not empty the coffee grounds from the coffee pot. But the animals get 2 hours of care and cleaning every day.
Shoes, purses, jewelry, and cookbooks abound. I had to take the QVC shipping boxes to the recycling center because they would not fit in the trash bin. Prior to QVC it was shoes and purses from the mall.
I disliked the excessive purchases and told her so several times in 2002 and 2003 I told her even more times her buying was crazy. W told me that I had become the "Nagging Wife". She said it was "Her Money." She pays for her things and the pet supplies / care. I pay for almost everything else that comes into the house or is associated with operating a household, except if it is not needed, like the $2500 bed, the upgrade to the 47" TV.
Dumb ways to make a living ( not really ) I had a 1969 Chevelle. W got angry and was going to call junk motor vehicle disposal to haul it away. I got busy and sold parts from the car. I got $1,100 for the parts. W never thought the car was worth any money. We have a totally different view on what things are worth.
W dislikes that I have my business at home. Basement and garage full of office machines and office machine parts and supplies. She is right that I have the house "Junked Up" but I see my business supplies as miniature (not gold mines) copper mines. True, nothing very valuable but $20 here and $75 there. Selling my "Junk" and billing for machine repairs all add up at the end of the month.
I had a shop away from home but after the rent and expenses at the end of the year, I earned $6K less that year, worked harder than I had when I worked at home.
Keeping up with the Jones, Getting Short Changed. W sees, someone (neighbors / friends / relatives) always have more than we do. I say they have a fulltime government income and a fulltime refinery income. We have your half time income and my fulltime income at 60% of what the refinery and government jobs pay. When she gets the "We do not have," I say, "Yes, we do not have any loans outstanding like our neighbors have." "Isn't credit wonderful." (Sarcasm) Or sometimes I say "It's a new ______ or it's QVC stuff, what do you want?" "You can't have both!"
I recycle things, like older cars, and its OK to repair things to make them last longer. For example, if water gets in the lawnmower gas, I drain the gas and carburetor, refill the tank and mow the grass. W wants to buy a new mower the first time it will not start.
Tractor Supply commercial has the perfect example of what I mean. A guy tells his dad “The mower will not start” ( guy pulled the rope one or two time I guess ) Dad said “Lets go to Tractor Supply and buy a new mower.” Just the way W operates.
More Money Issues A distant friend (PA) retired once, then went back to work at Wall Mart 3 yrs. ago and sold his retirement fund (was worth $20K but went down to $12K) when the market was down. He is 68 yrs old and bought a Corvette with his retirement money. He said he might as well have “some fun” before he lost all of his retirement money in the stock market decline. Now he has to work fulltime. W wants to have fun ( spend the retirement fund ) but not work like PA does.
W complained about her one $38K retirement fund dropping to $25K because the stock market was down. She wanted to sell her one retirement fund and go on a cruise or go to Vegas before it was worth nothing". This was a Fidelity mixed retirement program. All I heard for a while was "Investing in a retirement fund is gambling, might as well go to Vegas and have some fun". I frequently have to say, "investments go up and down, its normal". All she sees is she lost $13K. I say, "you only put in $18K and now have $25K. What did you lose?" "When the fund was worth $38K, the market was over valued." Since then the stock market averages have gone up, her one retirement fund is now worth $34K.
Last straw I told W that I would rather live in my car like the crazy lady does by the river than live with her spending, complaining the Jones have more than we do, wants to cash in her retirement fund and have a good time, wants me to pay the taxes on everything including her income tax (she said she does not make enough money to pay taxes, the IRS should exempt her income from taxes), and almost no intimacy or sex. I told her that I come 8th or 9th on her priority list, just above her almost dead gold fish. ( me very serious ). Well maybe I am 4th. Sometimes!
I also told her she treated her mother like crap when her mother had breast cancer (W would not take her 92 yr old mother (GM) to the hospital because W had to get up early, W said she is “not an early person”). Then a misunderstanding about GM having a birthday party for her 102Yr old brother and only visiting GM 3x or 4x in 8 or 9 months because some relatives told W the truth about GM’s 102Yr old brother’s BD guest list.
Then 8 months later, W's 92 yr. GM broke her hip and I had to make the first hospital visit. W finally made up with her 92 yr old mother (GM) who died 6 weeks after breaking hip. After the bills were paid MIL/GM had $7K to pass on to W. W spent that in 6 months.
After the insults, W looked in the paper for a new condo. She did not want anything with maintenance. I agreed. "Working 2 1/2 days a week, cleaning up after pets, and watching 24/7 news, and 60’s / 70’s sit com’s most of the day, she was over worked." (sarcasm).
A couple of weeks later she wanted to be just friends and live in our house. W also said I was too controlling. I call it being responsible and doing what is expected of a person in a spousal or extended family relationship.
Moving On I had felt very stressed for a while. The stress was causing my back to ache again, and I was starting to get rashes. I decided to go to a MC. I went to the first appointment alone. I Finally convinced W to go to the second appointment. Counselor said she saw so much resentment in both of us we should separate for a while. I told W the ball is in her court, she had to make the next appointment.
She never did, so I got on the Internet and looked at the dating sites to read what women and men wanted or had to offer in relationships. I read the ads and most sounded like fairytales. I also saw “Need to be accepted without question” often in women’s posts. Does that mean I want what I want, when I want it / free spirit / no rules for woman but the man has to be giving and responsible all of the time.
Then I looked for problems with relationships that developed through the Internet. I looked for personality test that would explain why W and I are so at odds with each other. I found several personality / compatibility test at marriagebuilders.com and filled them out for my understanding of myself.
Results from e-Harmony was that 5% of the women in the USA had almost the same interests, values, and wants as I have. e-Harmony said 40% of the women say they admire my traits but would have some difficulty living as I live. I never signed up or contacted anyone at any dating site.
Progress I read many post on DB's BB. Read the "Divorce Busting" book, Dr Laura's "Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands", "Stupid Things Coupled Do to Ruin Relationships", "Five Love Languages" and several other semi-good and wack-o books. I left the good books / personality / history inventories on the coffee table for 10 days but W never took the time to read anything.
I work at home so I ASS-u-ME (self sarcasm) she is not motivated to change much, but things are better since she saw I was reading the books and implementing a few suggestions I read from the books.
I didn't "go dark" but I did back off. You can't make anyone do anything. But you can react to a situation and implement behavior changed or consequences. Example to W, "If you want room in the house for your new _____, “you” have to find a way to remove _____ with out my help." Something I never would have done before because I always believed it was my duty as a H to do certain jobs around the house no matter what.
I also started to have service calls just before lunchtime and before dinnertime so I could stop at the taco place and have some time where I did not have to cook or wait on her. I would call home and say the job went differently than I had planned, that she should eat without me. I always had leftovers in the refrigerator or something she could heat in the microwave oven. ( boy, do I sound like the co-dependent / fused wife )
I also stood up for a few things I think any respectable spouse deserves. I was tired of her attitude "I Do what makes me happy" from W's work. For me, Love is more than a feeling ( adjective ); It is an action ( verb ). Sometimes in the past I did not want to work a fulltime job and a part-time job, but it was not a biggie for me to work and maybe the kids did need braces and dance lessons. I was the income person, so I stepped up to the plate and found the money. I see now that being the “income person” led me to be the absent spouse and the W felt like she had been the “left behind spouse” even though most of the time I was in the garage at home.
Progress I have been reading and posting on the BB for 4 months and have made several improvements in our relationship. This only happened after “I” decided I can only work on me and if W wants to work on her or the R I would do what ever was reasonable, if not she could leave to “be happy” and she can take anything in the house, especially the “ZOO” but do not expect me to help her move. W can hire a local mover, register for all of her utility connections. My mental opinion that I did not share was. If you want to leave, be gone for good.
W can also learn to get the TV to change channels by herself. She presses too many buttons on the remote at once and the TV or the remote locks-up and does nothing. To fix this situation the batteries have to be removed from the remote and reinstalled. The TV needs to be unplugged for 10 seconds and plugged back in. W still does not know how to fix the TV when it locks up.
The way back to US I did many of the things recommended in “Divorce Remedy”, tried to present myself as a happy, self-sufficient person that had friends. I called one of my old buddies and went to lunch and breakfast a couple of times. Did some car repairs with male friend that blew up in my face. This event was a deries of phone call “do you want to abc a car on (day). Next call “ would xx:xx time be good for you. I did the job in 2 hours then home. Next day friend called and said he owed me lunch at Burger King (BK), for the car help. I said “sure” I was repairing a copier in west end of town around 11AM. I said, “see you at the west BK after I call you when I finish at blanks office.
W accused me of starting a homosexual relationship with old work friend. She said she could not compete in a homosexualrelationship. And If I continued to see my friend the M was over. So far DB and DR book making things worse.
I kept at having a PMA and being pleasant to W. Thought of her as a distant relative. I can not tell her what to do, but I will never take any crap from her; “Iron clad boundaries” for me.
Winds of Change W changed a lot one evening, don’t know why. Next morning she got in bed with me and wanted to be close. She said I had changed and she was impressed. She said, Instead of me telling her what I thought needed to be done to improve the M, I had not “pushed” her and seemed to expect nothing of her, so the pressure was off, the nagging quit, and her resentment was less.
Several times since the big break, I have felt like giving up. Usually in a couple of days some little thing improves and I have hope again. I am reminded by the books to do a little thing nice for W and expect nothing in return. The book 5LL said what is a gift from one person may not be valued by the other person so learn what your S needs the most and give a little everyday.
Example; W goes all out Thanksgiving and when everyone does not compliment her highly, W gets her feeling hurt and then she gets angry. I am learning; Better to give a little and not expect compliments than to give everything and demand compliments, not get, them and become angry.
I learning not to listen to W when she talks about wanting something. I now know she wants something but she wants my attention more than she wants what she is talking about.
Also learned to not listen when she says she does not want anything from me on Mothers Day etc days, She said the kids are supposed to honor the mother, not the H. Mothers Day, her birthday, and our anniversary all come within a month. I call it the “Triple Witching Month.”
I am still learning when W’s “no” really means “I want you (H) to work at it for a while so I (W) feel wanted.” The old “no” really means “yes” thing, but first you have to jump through some hoops to prove to me that you love me. I need help on this one.
I have not felt like posting prior to today because I did not have time to implement and measure the results of some of the concepts that are listed in the books recommended on DB BB. If you look, you can see this is not my first post. I have learned a lot by reading other people’s post. I appreciate the group effort of helping each other. Thanks for reading this long post.
OG Lou Getting there in baby steps, PMA, and your help.
