Like SD, the once-a-week plan has worked well for us. In fact, it's still working well. But somehow, I just don't see Mrs. Dog going for it. I predict more complaints about it always being about sex, more complaints about lack of appreciation and understanding of her needs and her sitch, and a distinct disinterest in trying the experiment. Hey, somebody has to be the wet blanket.
Just the same, I wish you luck, HD. Maybe she will go for it. Maybe she'll see something that looks to her like an improvement in your attitude and level of appreciation. Maybe she'll lighten up when she sees the changes in you and the two of you will end up f*cking yourselves silly.
Well, our guests have arrived, so there's a aura of chaos at the flute household right now
The day they arrived, H + the boys and I went to the airport to meet them, we all had lunch together before we went to work. H was talking to me in the condescending way that I suddenly realized he uses towards me when we're with my family (I'm not the only one that notices it). My Dad also just pointed out to me that S4a seems to be the only one who stands up to his dad. So I guess the kids are more affected by him then I've wanted to notice.
Anyway...I was finally in a good mood last night, and we got to bed early enough that I didn't feel like just falling asleep. So I thought it would be a good time to bring up the 'experiment'
As usual, H was in bed armed with book and chocolate. So again I playfully sided up to him, and mentioned somthing about the chocolate. We talked about how we've been rather 'cool' the past few days - H complained that I was whining and I said that I was just trying to avoid his lousy mood...this was actually done in a sort of friendly way so not quite as bad as it sounds.
I got it 'turned around' saying that it would be nice if we could use this time to connect, that we could try to spend some time tallking nicely to each other. I don't remember exactly how the conversation went but I said 'What if we tried to ML once a week, in the beginning we could just cuddle for the first few times...'
H 'This is your silly thing again'
M'What is so silly about wanting to ML with you? Isn't that what married people do?'
That was about the end...so at least now I can be pretty sure that H is not a 'closet HD' I had a conversation in my head were I brought up that I love my kids, don't want to break up the family, but I don't want to be celibate for the rest of my life either. Thing is, it even sounds selfish to me. I know it shouldn't be, why can't I have all of that, family, kids and sex (or at least a loving R with H)? But it sounds like I'm saying that I'm going to break up the family for sex...
I know it's not just sex, but at this point it feels like some kind of intimacy might help the other areas as well, but then who knows? I certainly don't have any experience to back me up...
Ok, I'll stop for now. I'm ok right now, I've got family around me for a few more days. I do envy you that have family near by. I don't really talk about things with them, but it's nice to have somebody around that you know is on your side.
Quote: I had a conversation in my head were I brought up that I love my kids, don't want to break up the family, but I don't want to be celibate for the rest of my life either. Thing is, it even sounds selfish to me.
Hiya FF...
First off, I hope you are fully enjoying your visit with your family! My parents had me in their late 40's, and I know that part of the loss I feel right now as they struggle with their health is entirely selfish-- I will miss having the only people in the world who I know really have my best interests at heart.
Once again, I think you did a fine job of bringing the sex issue to the forefront, and I feel that is what it is going to take from you....consistent effort in the face of his negative attitudes.
I highlighted the above quote from your post because it's something that I struggle with too...would I really break up the family because of my sexual/emotional needs? It makes no sense to make empty threats and you have to feel the conviction of your words. The tact I have used is the one mentioned here before, about wanting to "model" a healthy relationship for the kids so that they have a better chance of finding happiness themselves. I have emphasized how kids need to see parents hugging, kissing and being warm and affectionate towards one another to balance the inevitable conflicts and difficulties they observe. And observe they do...more than we even realize. Perhaps this is the angle you can stress in your interactions with H.
Ask H for a piece of chocolate... and then go get it from his mouth.
I don't know if "selfish" is the right word. You want something that "only H" can provide in your M, and you're not getting it. That's not selfish to me. That's "controlling" of H to not provide it after repeated requests. Just my opinion.
You have to just keep telling H that you want to ML. Maybe you should MB while lying next to him and see his reaction. I know, for me, that lying next to my W while MB is a turn on to HER as well as to me. And, you're married... so there should be no "issues" against MB in your H's presence. Just another thought to try to help you rekindle that flame.
M'What is so silly about wanting to ML with you? Isn't that what married people do?'
Good going! If I were you I'd challenge him even more aggressively on his "silly" remarks. The next time he says something like that, say something like "Yes, it's very silly that you haven't made love to me in 7 years. In fact, it's so downright hilarious, I think I will share the joke with all our family members and acquaintances. Maybe the Guinness Book of World Records would be interested in this "silly" bit of trivia. I think it is possible that you have set the record for total nights spent not f*cking a willing woman who is sleeping in the same bed as you. Your picture could be in there right next to the guy who spent 3 monthes on a bed of nails and the man with the largest penis.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Thanks JJ for your wit and wisdom! I guess I probably shouldn't have brought anything up this week, but I was afraid of letting things slide too far, and I really was hoping the other night to regain some kind of pleasant connection with H.
I'm afraid the rest of this post is pretty whiny...mostly for me, to get what happened down in words, and sorted out in my mind.
H is definately feeling stressed with the guests. Can't say I blame him, but part of the reason we bought this house was so we would have an extra room for my family when they came (H's idea).
This morning started out on a bad note...Actually, not true, D8 jumped in bed and woke us up to tell us it had snowed last night (no kidding!), and H confided that he was feeling stressed out. After she left, H got up and closed the door, since my dad was also up. I stayed in bed for a little while, but couldn't get any sleep, especially after I realized Dad was up, so I got up, and left the door slightly opened without realizing it.
H got upset-rightly so, I suppose-but he screamed for me from the bed, and yelled at me for 5 minutes about how rude I was. I listened without comment, and closed the door on the way out.
The kids have had their schedule completely messed up, and are of course wild with having all the extra attention...and H has retreated into his cocoon, interacting with me mainly by 'picking' He stayed home yesterday so he could get some things done, and didn't do any work (fine, but he did have a 'day off' arranged by me, I'm doing what I can to aleviate stressors)
Later, after the rest of us ate breakfast, H finally came down, asked me to make him some breakfast: I was trying to find what winter clothes fit who, since all the kids wanted to go out to see the snow, and I haven't had a chance to go through the stuff (it was in the 40's-50's till today!!). So I said 'can't you see I'm busy', H 'Don't whine, just tell me if you can make me breakfast' so I barked back 'NO!'
H replied that 'what gives you the right to get mad at me?'
That was sort of the last straw. I don't remember all the details of the sorted 'convo' that followed...I do remember that at one point I refused to listen to H 'cause I felt he was being unreasonable, and he asked why I could choose when to listen or not, while he had to listen to me.
He did have a point, but I said that he doesn't seem to want to listen to me about what I consider the foundation of a marriage - our intimate relationship -, and that I was going to long lengths to try to be more considerate, and I felt he was being unreasonable and childish.
I'm afraid I even threw out that I was beginning to feel like it was hopeless, my trying, and that maybe it would be better if we would just live like roommates 'till the kids got bigger and I could support them myself.
H told me I was silly, and that got me more upset, I said I knew exactly what I was saying, and that I didn't like him calling me silly, and pointed out that he had said that the other night as well. I asked what someone on the outside might think if I told them we hadn't made love in 7yrs, and how he would feel if I started telling everyone, and he said 'Do what you have to do'.
I also threw out that I felt that at least I needed to start seeing a C ( to which H responded the same way) so I guess now I really do need to find someone to talk to. Maybe I can find someone in Helsinki where I work...but that means there'll be no chance of H attending.
Later on, all of us went for a walk, and I did make a point of saying something nice to H, he asked why, and I said that I really would rather that we could be friends - or more - and that it was his moodiness that set me off.
H has mainly avoided me since then, though he did come to sauna with me for a short while, I told him then that I must be pretty wound up, since it was taking me so long to relax in the sauna.
I guess in order to have anything good come out of today, I have to stick to my words and find a C. At least that way I might look a little less like I'm just lashing out wildly. It really has felt like H is acting like a 4 yr old child who has to find 5 million things to ask mom as soon as she gets on the telephone .
If anyone has read this far, thanks for 'listening' and letting me get this off my chest.
I hate those kind of days and those kinds of conversations... you feel yourself and your partner sliding down the glass mountain into the pit and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it. And when there are guests around (even if they're people you really like) it just adds to the tension.
I think having a C to talk to will do you worlds of good. Your H sounds like a tough nut to crack. Having a place to go to get your sanity and your reality validated (besides this board) could do you worlds of good.
((((( FF))))) Try not to get too discouraged...we all have days like that. I relate to your posts at times because my H has a difficult part to his personality which somehow really comes out with me. Take care of yourself, enjoy the support of your family and I agree with Lill that the C idea is a good one.
Yes, a counselor is a good idea. Go for it...for YOURSELF. And hey, it's just fine that you choose not to listen to him when he's being angry or hateful to you. That's a valid boundary. Just as he has decided not to take you seriously when you talk about the lack of sex...that's his boundary, although, given the fact that you are in a committed relationship, I tend to think his boundary is not reasonable.
Keep the pressure on, FF. And stop taking his crap.
It has been hard having company while H has been like this...but it has also given me some resolve not to put up with this anymore.
JJ, your reminder on another thread about the hard line you took, and your once again great analogy about the kids in the playground got to me too. I just wish H+I were in the same house together more often so there would be time to deal with this...avoidance doesn't get us anywhere, of course. I'm off next week, so I guess I know what I'll be doing over vacation...
I had a conversation in my head were I brought up that I love my kids, don't want to break up the family, but I don't want to be celibate for the rest of my life either. Thing is, it even sounds selfish to me. I know it shouldn't be, why can't I have all of that, family, kids and sex (or at least a loving R with H)? But it sounds like I'm saying that I'm going to break up the family for sex...
.
And when there are guests around (even if they're people you really like) it just adds to the tension.