Major Breakthrough-I am Freaking Out. HELP!

[MJontheMend]

In a nice way, because I care for you in my own simple anonymous way, I am trying to tell you not to actually become a hardass hard to please no frills woman because of your situation. There is a very real tenderness about you that I think, rightly or wrongly, is being threatened. I want to see it protected

I didn't take offense because you said this, but it did make me cry. The notion that I am in any way capable of being a hard*ss is obviously fairly absurd. It's just that I feel incapable of dealing with this situation one way or the other as the nice woman that I am. You have to understand. My H was MEAN to me because of his own insecurities. I really didn't do anything to deserve the treatment I received. Because of this I don't know if I will be more likely to become tough and bitter if I stay in this relationship or if I leave it. It might be impossible for me to allow myself to be truly vulnerable in relationship with my H. I might not be that brave. I might only be brave enough to leave.

[NOPkins]

Mojo said:
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I didn't take offense because you said this, but it did make me cry. The notion that I am in any way capable of being a hard*ss is obviously fairly absurd. It's just that I feel incapable of dealing with this situation one way or the other as the nice woman that I am. You have to understand. My H was MEAN to me because of his own insecurities. I really didn't do anything to deserve the treatment I received. Because of this I don't know if I will be more likely to become tough and bitter if I stay in this relationship or if I leave it. It might be impossible for me to allow myself to be truly vulnerable in relationship with my H. I might not be that brave. I might only be brave enough to leave.
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Sorry I made you cry.

I know your husband is being mean to you. Kids are often mean. Kids don't come when you call (cell phone turned off). Kids pout and fold their arms and get stubborn.

You are a good woman, MoJo. You deserve your husbands respect and love.

Your husband appears to be trying, even though he repeatedly reverts to child like tantrums whenever he doesn't get his way. It is going to take him a while to learn civil adult behavior.

I am concerned that this is going to cause you to get 'hard'.

In order to prevent that, he simply has to understand that he can no longer respond to you like a child. That means you are going to have to tell him, yet again. That sucks. The next time he turns off a cell phone for spite, you might need to leave a suitcase packed for him and sitting on the curb for when he returns from his next trip. Maybe with a sweet note attached: "I love you baby, call me in a couple of days when you decide to grow up."

You have to choose not to respond to his childish behavior by trying to 'fix it' anymore. You don't have to leave him, but you are going to have to be brave enough to let him fail. Like learning to ride a bike, he needs a skinned knee or two to make the bike a tangible part of his existence.

I understand you are suffering. I think you need to erect some real but simple boundaries that he can quickly learn to respect. I suggest that one of them be a requirement of adult behavior at all times when dealing with each other.

Your husband is a troubled child that loves you, but keeps slapping you and spitting in your face. You can either give up on him, or quickly teach him to stop and behave. There is nothing fair in that for you, but it is what it is.

I am particularly fond of you, MM. I wish I could have a little 'talk' with your husband and save him a whole lot of other pain. That can't happen, so it is up to you.

Please don't let him continue this way until you really do break. You can deal with this situation, but you can't let it run on forever. It is time for him to get off the pot.

Just to be clear, I am not even talking about sex here, but about basic respect. You deserve that from him regardless of the sexual situation - that can be dealt with separately if need be.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[SolidMechanic]

I am well aware that there is a certain amount of immaturity in my current mood/POV. I basically feel like throwing myself on the floor in a temper tantrum and chanting "It's not fair! It's not fair! It's not fair!".

Also, the thing about aging doesn't really help me. It's kind of like saying "You know you're going to need reading glasses, a bar on your bathtub and laxatives when you're older so why don't you start using them now?". Okay it's not really like that but I'm feeling bitter.

Dear MoJo,

I did a crappy job of making my point, which happens when I post at work. I did not mean to imply that you were being immature, or that old folks sex was something to look forward to. But when you read PM, how did you react to Schnarch's notion that the hottest sex that people experience happens to them when they are in their 50's? Did you really believe that? Or is he just trying to sell more books? He is the famed sex therapist, so maybe he knows something I don't.

Personally, I'm 44 and my d**k still gets hard when the wind blows. I am assuming that this is the kind of response you would appreciate in your H. This is what I'm talking about when I refer to the normal pattern of young male arousal. In another 10 years, however, this may no longer be true. If I am engaged in intimate relations with someone in 10 years, I expect that sexual arousal will be something that I can no longer take for granted.

Your husband is different. You have always known that, but now you have a greater appreciation of the depth of this difference. Schnarch claims that the work that people must do to get aroused as they get older leads to personal growth and better sex. Do you believe him? If you do, you could use your husbands arousal issues to take your marriage to a higher level than if you were with someone who was easily aroused.

I'm betting that the two of you can adapt to his style of arousal. The cause of my confidence is that both of you seem to have the necessary will. Your H obviously loves you and wants to make you happy. He is also childish, needy and defensive. If he knows that he is going in the right direction with his lovemaking, maybe he will be less defensive. But at least his childish behavior is easy to read. He is being honest with you, rather than telling you one thing to humor you, while doing nothing, as so many of us experience.

Again, I am sorry that your hopes of converting H to HD aren't working out. I guess that only worked with CinemaNymph. I am really sorry that he is threatening to leave and giving you the silent treatment. But answer this question: if one year ago, you knew that he would be making love with you in September 2004 as much as he has, how would you feel? In the final analysis, if he changes his behavior permanently, doesn't that define his nature?

Sincerely,

SM

P.S. I'm going to have to cop to a little discussion bored fusion of my own. I am very jealous of the progress that you and your husband have made in your sex lives. If I ever have phone sex with my W I'd start selling snow blowers at the Gates of Hell. OTOH, my W would never turn off her cell phone (she'll never own a cell phone, but that's another thread). That [censored] must stop.

[Lillieperl]

did you work in the adult film industry?

[cinemanymph]

I look back at all the people I had 'just sex' with. In my mind, it is nothing more than a pile of a thousand limp naked bodies in a glass cube. I can find no definition for anything in it. It is as empty as a fart, the only briefly lingering substance of it being a regrettable stench.

My goodness, NOP, I never would have taken you for a sexual cynic.

[MJontheMend]

I talked to my H for hours last night and this morning. He revealed the following:

1) He doesn't really think that he is LD. He thinks he has been LD in his relationships because he has never really had sex with a woman to he was sexually attracted. He has never been the pursuer but the one pursued.

2) He thinks that the reasons he is more HD now are that I am more attractive and he has given up his 30 year addiction to porn.

3) He knows that he's not HD but he thinks he's near normal drive.

4) The real reason why he has been mean to me all these years is that he resented the fact that he had to marry me because I was pregnant. He says he was able to be mean to me because he didn't really see me as an individual. He saw me as "the woman who ruined his life".

5) He understands that if he wants to have a relationship with me, he has to get over his resentment.

6) He understands that if he wants to have a relationship with me, he will have to dramatically improve his behavior/attitude towards me.

7) He feels far too emotionally dependent upon me in an unhealthy way(fused).

8) He needs to lose his emotional dependence on me in order to make a free choice about whether he is willing or wants to do what is necessary to recommit to our relationship.

9) He feels that it is critical for him to make the decision about whether to stay in our relationship from a position of strength because otherwise we will be back in the same vicious cycle of him feeling resentful because he didn't make the choice.

10) He feels that he was very sexually and emotionally immature at 24 when we married and in a sense our relationship has stunted his growth until recently.

11) He has a lower level of resentment towards me for starting the process of confronting the problems in our marriage because he feels like once again he didn't make the decision. He feels like he will lose this resentment as soon as he really does feel free to make a choice about whether to commit to our relationship.

12) He feels like we do need to "separate" on some level because it will help him to lose his needy emotional dependence on me (differentiate).

Basically what happened is he took over control of the process and I can't intervene in any way because the extent to which I try to control the process at this point is the extent to which he will feel like he didn't have free choice and therefore will continue to resent me.

I find myself in the odd emotional state of being anxious and relieved at the same time.

So, no more Mojo plans or theories are being generated. Maybe it's time to change my name to JustJenny.

[GonnaGoBlind]

JJ,

Wow, what a mixed bag. It is good that he's being this open with you, even though the material is not what you necessarily wanted to hear. The fact that he's getting it out though tells me he is confronting himself, and from this you will both eventually benefit (hopefully by having him chose you). Hang in there girl, this sounds like classic Snarch. You'll be in a better place once he works thorugh this regardless of the outcome.

[Daybreak]

Forgive me for dropping out of lurker mode here ... and for stating something so obvious ...

But all these items that you listed - that your H revealed - is a GIGANTIC step for him! And for you as well!

Maybe you can't intervene in the way that you would like, Madame General - but you can lay out guideposts for him to see. Maybe your H will seek out a C because he does have a lot on his psychic agenda now.

As for you - what are you going to do in the meantime? How are you going to take care of yourself?

[honeypot]

Mojo,
Wow what a lot to cover in one night!!

I am amazed at his level of digging deep into himself.

Here is my opinion and you can take it fwiw:
I would listen very closely to what he is saying about the resentment stuff and discard the rest.
Yesterday he was really disclosing a lot about himself and saying that he has been LD in past R's and even had no desire to see naked boobies.
Then last night, he's back to assigning the reason for his LD to other people and other circumstances.

My H still does this, incidentally. Or, here is what he does..his definition of desire levels is based solely and completely on frequency. That is, if he wants sex 3-4 times per week then he has a high sex drive and compares himself favorably with other men out there. The fact that he doesn't think about sex during the day, doesn't have sexual thoughts when he sees me, oftentimes has to gear himself up for sex or is easily put off the whole thing doesn't mean diddly to him. The fact that he DOES want it on certain days is what he bases the whole thing on.

Now, for me, having a high libido'd man means more than frequency..it means having a man who wants me and thinks about me and looks forward to our sex life. Simply being willing several times per week--and enjoying those times--does not make you HD. It does make you a lower drive person who is motivated to please your partner and has a lot of love for them.

I think your H is going through a lot of turmoil right now and I would let him sift through it and not assign a whole lot of meaning to anything he says until he comes to a point of clarity for himself. Right now, I think he is grasping at a lot of things and trying to make sense of the last 15 yrs and what they have meant to his development. I'm not saying that what he said isn't true..I'm saying that it may continue to change and shape itself as time goes on.

And that ego of his will continue to try and come up with reasons that support his desperation to not be an LD man. H cringes when/if I say that he is because he just can't see that a man who wants sex at all can be LD.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. It still boils down to what he is willing to give and what I am willing to live with.

Sounds like things are going well for you and that onion just keeps getting smaller and smaller, eh!

hp

[sat567]

Mojo (will I ever get used to calling you Jenny?)
I'm with HP and the others on this one. This is good. Trusted self disclosure, a major ingredient of those tasty Schnarchburgers! Help him...but not TOO much.

Sending thoughts of comfort your way,

Hairdog