watching, waiting, learning

[loveforever]

Well my old post finally got locked at 139 posts. So I have to start a new one now. I was hoping that I could move over to 'piecing' once my thread got locked. But I guess I am still here.

Here is the link to my old post:

how do I answer him?


Well the weekend was okay I guess. H told me that he wanted to go for dinner with me on Friday, but that he was going out afterwards. Which of course means with OW. We had a nice time at dinner at a new restaurant. No R talk. Then he left. He didn't text me all night.

Saturday morning he came home really early, he had to take our dog to the vet (I didn't know). Afterwards he came to the room and we cuddled and slept for a couple of hours. Then we took our son and another nephew out to a family entertainment complex. It was fun, we had a good time. That evening H told me that he was going to stay home tonight, BUT he had to go out Sunday afternoon. I got kind of pissed cause I thought we would have another family excursion during the day on Sunday, BEFORE we had to go to my DAD and my brothers wife's birthday dinner. H assured me that he would met us for dinner and that he wouldn't be late. I asked him why does he keep going back with OW?

H told me that they never broke up, and how did I know that they were fighting? He figured out I was reading his text messages and told me to stop checking his phone. He said if there was something to tell me, he would tell me. He said that he and OW have been fighting, but they were still together. It was just that she didn't 'listen' to him and that he basically was trying to get her to understand.

So in otherwords, he stayed home last week and Saturday night to 'teach her a lesson' and show her what he will or won't put up with? Interesting. I agree that I shouldn't jump to conclusions based on their text messages. But I know that the fighting was a lot more serious than H let on.

I told H that I was getting tired of this situation. H asked me what I wanted him to do. I told him he needs to decide if he wants to continue living in denial with her, or come back to reality with me. I told him that I know he will be hurting either way. I told him that although his family may not go to extremes (they said OW wouldn't be allowed in their houses and my MIL wants to slap her in the face), they will tolerate OW for H's sake, but they will NEVER respect her. That it would be extrememly difficult for OW to move in with H's mom, that OW would start to resent his family and not want to spend time with them because they don't accept her. Then he will end up being like his younger brother (He rarely socialized with the family cause they don't respect his girlfriend and SHE knows it -long story). I then changed the subject cause I didn't want to dwell on the negative, but I just wanted to throw this out there so he would have another reason to leave OW floating around his head.


On Sunday He said that he HAD to go out, that he wasn't choosing to do something fun with OW, that he had to help someone move. (I don't know who- either her or her friends?)
That he would rather be out having fun with me and our son.

He didn't understand that it doesn't matter WHAT the reason is for his absence, whether he is partying or not, bottom line is that he wasn't able to spend the afternoon out with me and our son. I just said fine, I will see you at dinner.
I then told him that OW is going to keep asking him to do stuff when he is supposed to be with our family. He said that he has stopped spending so much time with her over the past couple of weeks to spend more time at home. I reminded him that he was just doing that to 'prove a point' to her about her behaviour. I told him that she is not going to like it if he keeps doing this. He said TOO BAD FOR HER.

I didn't want to fight with him, especially since he admitted he would rather go out with us, and said that it was too bad for her if she didn't like things the way they are! So we kissed goodbye.

While I went out with our son, we went to another amusement park that we have season passes for, it was the last day of the season that it was open. They had NEXT years season passes on sale for half price, so I called H and told him. He said to buy passes for us for next year. I smiled to myself and said sure. H showed up on time for dinner and we had a great time with my family.

On monday he was in a foul mood, he told me he was grumpy, I asked him what was wrong? He just gave me a look, so I said sorry, I thought maybe something was wrong at work.
Obviously it was about OW.

On Tuesday he was also irritable. I didn't ask him what was wrong, I just acted as if all was normal.
I managed to get a look at his text messages. He IS fighting with her again. These messages were sent on Monday, there was nothing yesterday....In no particular order:

H to OW: I told you that I am not feeling very good about our relationship, I think we need to go our separate ways.

OW to H: I love you. Why is it so hard to tell her that you don't appreciate her hanging around your family so much, she should stop! out of respect!

OW to H: goodnite baby, I love you.

Okay, I don't know what the hell this girl is thinking, but she is either the most stupid, naive person on the planet, or the most selfish, self-centered, manipulative beatch. Maybe a combo of all.
What the hell does she think that I am 'hanging around' his family for? She probably thinks that I am forcing H to spend time with me by hanging out with his family or something dumb like that. Maybe H used me as the excuse for not spending so much time with her? I don't know what the hell H told her, but I know that he told her at one time that the reason we are living in the same house is cause of financial reasons only. I think she thinks I am some pathetic person, just hanging around like a pest, basically forcing myself on to H and his family even though I am not welcome. Meanwhile it is actually the OPPOSITE!

I don't really care what SHE thinks or what assumptions she has made. As long as she is on the way out the door. HOWEVER, if I ever get a chance to talk to her, OR if my H decides to stay with her, I will definately set the record straight and let her know what an idiot she is.

Can you believe this? She's accusing ME of being disrespectful? What a loser. I would love to find out what BS my H has told her for her to think like this. Maybe one day I will, or maybe in won't even matter in the end....

Last night H told me that he is angry at me. I asked him why? He said he has been angry at me for a long time. I know that we had this same conversation a few months ago, when he told me about all the resentment etc.. that had built up over the years. But I thought that he had gotten past that, especially since he hasn't been angry towards me for the past couple of months.

I think that he is angry about the way things are turning out with OW. That he is sad and starting to face withdrawal. However he doesn't see this as the reason for his anger. Instead he is mistakenly blaming me and the past issues as the the reason for it. I know that this is something that H has to deal with on his own. But is there ANYTHING I can do to make him understand that these feelings are a normal reaction to the situation. That it is only a temporary state, that eventually he will work through it? I know I can validate and try not to put any pressure on him. But is there anything else I can say to him so that he doesn't blame our old issues for this new anger?

[Merlie]

I've been reading your thread for a long time. You have taught me so much about loving someone, about supporting them even when they are hurting themselves (and hurting you too). My instinct has always been to just walk away when the going gets rough. So I guess I am answering your message to say, I don't have any good advice, but you sound a little down and frustrated, and I want you to know I am cheering for you. You have made so much progress.

Your husband's anger is probably not at you or at what you've done in the past, frankly I think he is just angry at himself, and can't believe you go on loving him and supporting him, and so he turns that anger at himself for being such a fool toward you.

He has obviouly told the OW things about your relationship that aren't true -- part of his fantasy or his fog -- and he knows it. So when he has to "defend" to her why you are at family functions, he has to lie all over again, and so he has to shift the blame to you. Think about it -- he says to you "too bad for OW" if she doesn't like something, and you two connect over it; you can only assume that of course he says things about you (that aren't true) to keep his fantasy with the OW going. But I think the anger is because the fantasy is crumbling and he knows it. He knows that one day this naive OW is going to wake up to his fence sitting, and he won't be the shining star in her eyes anymore. Meanwhile, you've been the woman who stood by him. And that will make all the difference.

[loveforever]

Thanks for your input Merlie, I am glad I can help others a little in their situations too.

I don't know how long this is going to take. H keeps fighting with her, but the result is the same, the affair continues. At the same time, we are closer than ever. He is still texting me when he goes out with her, and he is spending less time with her than before. I guess I just need to continue to be patient and doing 180s.

H was just given a job offer by the company I work for. He wouldn't be in the same building, but would be a few blocks away. This means we will be commuting together in the morning and evening. We can also do lunch often. Hmmm.... I hope this will be a good thing, he will also be closer to some of our friends and family that work in the same area, so he will be spending more time with me and with them.

A few nights ago, law and order was on tv and we watched it while working on the basement. It was about a husband (52 yrs old) who left his wife and 2 kids for his 25 yr old co-worker and they got married. Well the little bimbo was murdered and the ex-wife was the suspect. During the show many things came up that mirrored my feelings and what H is doing. The wife said that of course she didn't like the OW cause 'she slept with my husband, broke up my marriage and my family'. My sentiments exactly.
The cops talked to his co-workers and other families members and everyone disapproved and said that he should have tried to work on his R with his wife instead of trying to start over. The H also got in an argument with the ex, saying that their marriage was over before OW showed up, that he wanted to be happy and so he was starting over.
She said he had no business starting a new family by destroying his current one.
Well it ended up that the 15 year old daughter murdered the OW cause she couldn't stand to see her mom in agony everyday (she was depressed and drinking). She couldn't stand seeing her dad make 'a fool out of himself'. And she hated being shuffled back and forth between the parents. She said she had to put a stop to the madness because her parents wouldn't. SOOO SAD.... So basically, because of the husbands selfishness and his affair - his wife was a disaster, the OW was dead, and his young daughter has ruined her entire life. NICE.... I hope he is happy now....

I don't know if this had any effect on my H, but I am very glad that he watched it.

H went out with OW on Wednesday, when he came back he told me he missed me and was thinking about ML with me. He called me 'my love' yesterday, I know he didn't mean to say it, that it slipped out. But I didn't make a big deal out of it, I just acted like it was normal...

Tonight he is going out with his friends (not with OW). I wonder if he will go to her afterwards or come home? Not that I will be holding my breath or anything. I have actually picked up a new hobby during all the times that H has been out with OW. So I am just going to do my own thing tonight....

H is supposed to come to my parents for thanksgiving on Monday, and on Sunday I think his brother is doing something. I wonder if OW is planning anything? Will H have to disappoint her or me? We'll see.....

[LifeGoingOn]

Loveforever

I've been following along and sympathize. It's funny the things that come on TV...Bye Bye Love (Ive never seen the whole, evidently about 3 men going thru divorces) was on and he stopped to watch it, then quickly changed the channel when issues about missing the kids came up....I just tried to see his face for a reaction.

Kudos to you for doing something while H is gone. I hope I can find your strength to deal w/ the same type of thing.

Have a good night.

[loveforever]

thanks for the encourgement. I haven't been posting as often cause there hasn't been any major developments. H continues to take baby steps but nothing decisive.

This is what happened over the last couple of weeks or so.

He stayed home on Friday night and the 2 of us went for dinner and then watched a movie. We got home around 2am and he caught me trying to read his phone. He got angry and went to the other room to watch tv. It was so quiet in the house that I heard him talking on the phone. He was talking to OW and he was calling her a liar. He said that he doesn't want to see her anymore, and that he wants his watch back. I couldn't hear too much more cause it was muffled.

On Saturday night, I checked his text messages and he got one from her that said:

"baby don't be mad, I am sorry I lied to you. Please come see me later."

He did end up going out with her late on Saturday. On Sunday, the 2 of us took our son and other nephews out and then we watched a movie.

I had to work on Monday, afterwork he picked me up and we went to my parents for thanksgiving, it was fun.

Wednesday he usually goes out with OW, but he told me that he wasn't going out cause he was tired. I checked his phone and he got a text from OW in the morning saying she was 'going home now'. So I think she went home sick from work and wasn't feeling well to go out with him that night.
Poor baby.

Then Thursday was my birthday and after work we went to red lobster for dinner with everyone. It was nice.

Then he asked me if I wanted to go out with him, I said yes and we went to our usual. There was NO relationship talk and we didn't fight about anything. We flirted a bit and laughed a lot. Then he told me that he was supposed to go out that night (with ow of course), but decided to go with me instead cause it was my birthday. So he must have cancelled on her....Oh, poor baby.... I checked his phone and she called and left him 2 messages while we were out.... He called her back and talked to her for 1 minute.....Maybe she was still sick, I don't know.

On friday night, he said he was going out. I told him there was a midnight madness sale I was going to so I left before him. I got home and he was gone. I started working on my project, I was taking a break and H showed up at home. I didn't ask him ANYTHING about why he showed up at home. He asked me if I wanted to go out with him. We went to a different bar and there was no R talk again. We had a good time.

He told me that he was at a friends place earlier, and then he was going to go out (with ow) BUT changed his mind cause he didn't want me to be sad since my birthday was the day before. I said thank you to him for hanging out with me. Personally, I think that either he got in another fight with OW, she is still sick, OR she had other plans. He hasn't gone out with her at all the past week. Regardless, I know that he doesn't want to let me know about their R because it gives me 'HOPE' as he says, so lately
he just tells me that he wanted to spend time with me or he is tired etc... I am fine with this, but I really wish I knew what was going on....

On Saturday night he went out with OW, but I know he went with his other friends first, which means he didn't spend too much time with OW.

On Sunday he was very flirty with me, we had a long make-out session (something we haven't done in a long time). It was great. In our conversations we talk about doing things in the future as if we are still going to be together. Previously, he would always throw in a comment about us not being married anyways etc... Now he only does that once and awhile.

Well thanks for reading, it helps me to write things down.

[loveforever]

Well, it's time for my update. Last week H didn't see OW at all, he usually goes with her once during the week. That's 2 weeks in a row that he didn't go out during the week, and then he only saw her last saturday (23rd). He texted me and told me he missed me that night. We had a pretty good week, spending a lot of time together and with our son.

Well that was the good news, unforturnately he went with her on this past Friday AND Saturday night. He hasn't done that in a month or so. I was sad (I know I shouldn't be letting what he does affect me....). I was hoping that things were winding down after all the fights they have had and the reduction in time he spends with her. But it seems that everything is dandy again in lalaland.
On sunday when he came home, he told me that he wasn't going out next weekend, that is why is went out both nights. SHE probably has plans so that is why he isn't going with her (ASSuming again). On sunday night when we were going to bed H was hugging me and then he said that he wished I didn't love him. I got really upset and started crying. I told him that I think I need to leave this place. He said he was sorry, but he just meant that he hates hurting me. He said ILU, and I said it back.

The next morning (monday) I acted as if all was normal. I was feeling very discouraged, but then I came on site here and read some stories that gave me encouragement. I put on my happy face when I got home and tried to push the negative thoughts out of my head.
At night we went out. While we were there H asked me what I meant when I said I needed to leave - did I mean right at that moment to get out of the room, Or to actually leave the house. I told him that I meant to leave the house. He said quietly that he thought I didn't want to leave our home. I replied that I didn't WANT to leave the house, but sometimes I feel like it would be best. He asked me if I felt like I was going crazy cause of the sitch. I said yes sometimes. Then I changed the subject and we had fun the rest of the night.

I know it was a backslide to cry, but I think my saying that I should leave is bothering him. I warned him a few weeks ago that we can't continue in this limbo land forever, that sooner or later, either myself or OW will get tired of it - and that I hope for his sake that OW leaves before I do etc...(in my earlier post)... I hope he is remembering this conversation now and realized that I meant it...

On the positive side, he is doing a lot of stuff for the house and talking about the future as if we are in it together.
Also he wants to go out with me this Friday night and suggested we go to a hotel afterwards instead of driving home. I will do my best to become the OW.... I hope I find the strength to continue this dbing, I find myself wanting to give up more often lately....

[2much]

loveforever..I found you and will catch up with your posts later today!!

Angie

[loveforever]

Hey 2much, glad you found me, I would love some input...

Here is an update, Oct 26-today

H didn't go out with OW the whole week, then on Friday night we went to a halloween thing, it was the first time since the bomb that we went out together with another couple. It was fun we all had a good time. We didn't end up renting a hotel room since it wasn't as far away as we thought.

So the 2 of us went out alone afterwards. H asked me a question and then he misunderstood my reply (what else is new?). Then he made the comment that he is tired of 'trying' with me. I said how are you trying? You are involved with someone else. How can you say that you are even giving us a chance if you are still emotionally attached to OW? He said that he has been staying home more often and going to more places with me. I said yes, that is true, but it is not consistent since you went out with her both last friday and saturday. I told him that I don't know if he is staying home cause he wants to be with me or if it is because he is having problems with her. I told him I don't want to assume anything or jump to conclusions. The night ended on a bad note. But I think he was mad about something with OW and he was trying to pick a fight with me...


Saturday night he went out with OW around 11pm. But then he showed up at home a couple of hours later. I was surprised but just acted like it was normal. H stayed home for this whole week again. I checked his text messages and they are still texting each other. On Friday night he told me he wasn't going out, we worked on the computer together, and then we watched a movie. On Saturday night he told me he was going out, I was disappointed but then decided to make the best of it. I asked him if he wanted to go for dinner first? He said sure. We both got dressed up nicely and then we went to the restaurant. We went to this really romantic place that we went to once before (a few years ago). We had an amazing time, laughing drinking etc... When it was time to leave he asked me for a kiss, we kissed and then I said I would talk to him later...

I went out to see my parents. On my way back home he called me and I told him I was stuck in traffic. He said to call him when I got home so he knew I was okay. I called him when I got home. We talked for a few minutes then he said he would talk to me later. I texted him a goodnight message just before I went to bed. He called me and said goodnight and that he would see me in the morning. I was sad but I didn't let him hear it... Then he showed up at home an hour later. Again, I didn't question it.

So he hasn't spent the night with OW for the past 2 weekends. He has only seen her twice during this time and only for a few hours each time. He hasn't gone out with her during the weeknights for over 4 weeks....

Last night he called her for 15 mins on his cell. I don't know what they were talking about. Later while we were getting ready for bed H asked me if I had dated or talked to any other guys, I said no. He asked me if I still love him, I said yes. He asked me if I thought that everything was okay between us and if we were 'together' again, cause he didn't want me to think that. I told him that I know that we are not.

Oh this is very tedious, I know things are slowing down between OW, but I don't want to get my hopes up. I have to constantly remind myself to look at the big picture, that I just have to be patient. It is hard to understand what the hell is going on since on one hand H got mad and told me that he IS trying - since he is spending more time with me. But then on the other hand he tells me that he doesn't want me to jump to any conclusions about him spending time with me! SO, does H spending less time with OW equal him trying with me or not???!#@%$#

He is so confused and continues to go back and forth himself. However, he is now spending about half the amount of time with OW that he used to. We have gotten closer but we can't seem to get past some of our issues. But then again, I don't expect to beable to repair our marriage completely with OW still in the picture. There is only so much we can do, especially since H tends to be in a foul or sad mood lately. So I am concentrating on me and fixing what I can...

[WindyCityBeth]

loveforever -

Your posts give me so much encouragement! My H is having an A with a co-worker. He is having trouble ending their R. I think he became much more emotionally attached than he thought he would. He is still seeing her 2 to 3 times a week, usually overnight. I am trying to be the best DBer I can but it really hurts down deep to know he is there with her. How do you handle it? He tells me he loves me all the time. I just wish I could really belive him. There are still so many secrets. And boy those secrets can be hurtful! Good luck to you - I think you are doing a great job and let us know if you have any successes!

How
You can read my posts under Now What Do I Do?

[2much]

loveforever....

It does sound like things are winding down with OW, but you still have to take care of yourself and not get to excited. It sounds like what started happening with my H and OW just before she told him they couldnt go on with the affair any longer....not sure if its the same sitch with your H and OW, but calls got less, texts got less and less and he started spending more time with me. But of course I got the same, "Im not in love with you and dont think things will work, so dont get your hopes up that things are good with us".

Sounds like you should just keep doing what you are doing and see what happens. He is confused right now and really doesnt know his own future yet either...as hard as it is to believe, they are in just as much pain and confusion as we are even though they dont show it in the same way....

Hang in there girl...you can do it!!!