hd, When I read your post my first thought was "hd has finally had an instance of differentiation" such was it's gravity compared with your usual relatively light hearted posts. However I now think that you have just gone over a cusp. Most of us HDs are the same, feeling that we put huge amounts of thought, effort, attention and love into our marriages yet feel we get almost nothing in return. We are driven on by our optimism and the hope that everything will "get back to how it was" once x,y and z are in place. We are continually climbing a mountain but just sometimes we fall off the cliff the other side and drop into dispair with a bump. It's 3am so what am I doing on this board? Well I was feeling confident and great so made a bedtime suggestion to W but was brushed aside like a piece of dirt on her shoulder. I fell off that cliff big time and my thoughts went into reverse just like yours. For two long hours I lay in bed thrashing around. In my mind I gave up and thought about contacting OW again. Eventually I had to come down here to be with my cyber friends. I'm just about ready to go back to get some sleep now and resume that long hard climb in the morning. I know you hairdog. It won't be long before you are back in the thick of battle. SD