Hey Sage!

Has anyone else noticed the eery similarities in our sitches, personalities and comments to others? I am nearly always working up a response to someone's post and them BAM...there's Sage typing my exact sentiment!

Now this latest deal with your H, I could copy and use as a foundation for a discussion with CJ right now.
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I am CONVINCED the same issues are at work for us. So I'm going to thread steal (mine's so boring these days!) and do some work here, okay??

1. h believes that I will never trust him again ("I KNOW you. You will NEVER trust me again

Despite my verbal assurances, I'm sure CJ feels this way too. And you know what? I'm NOT sure I can ever really trust him...I mean I DO, daily...but there are those moments when he's been on his laptop for hours...when I ask and he says he's downloading tunes (but there was all this typing!!) when I have a "moment".

To date, to my credit, THANK GOD! I have not mentioned these feelings. I really don't think it would serve any good, as I've come to learn that the most basic trust is in MYSELF...that no matter what I could handle it and have a good life.

But what your posts really help me see is how CJ might be feeling through all of this.

2. h believes that I have forgiven him but that I haven't forgotten and that the A is in the forefront of my mind

You got me beat here...not only is CJ not sure I've completely forgiven him, neither am I. ....The A's, yes...but the nasty hurtful treatment of me during that whole time...not quite there yet. I just don't understand it yet, but maybe I need to let go of that need to KNOW and figure everything out. (that's my analytical side)

I really don't know (do we need a talk?) if CJ thinks the As are in my mind daily, but frankly...sometimes they are. Or at least bits and pieces when I'm feeling low.

I DO know that he made a point of telling me there's been no contact with OW...I hadn't really thought there was.

3. h says that he doesn't think he will ever forgive himself

I think this one scares me the most. CJ said the same thing. Last time I asked him (we did a % thing, I thought I was at about 90% forgiveness)...he said he was at less than 10%.

This worries me as guilt and shame...not great for self esteem, not great for someone who's depression prone, and if you feel you're a bad person...what's stopping you from doing MORE wrong???

4. h says that my desire to talk about the A is counter to his desire NOT to talk about it. He said that I ASSume that I will gain more HEALING than he will "lose" in the discussion.



I think you two had OUR argument! CJ hasn't come right out and said he doesn't like to discuss the A or OW, but it is CRYSTAL CLEAR that he doesn't approve. He withdraws, he points out that we need to look ahead....

Heaven help me...but I DO look to gain healing from such discussions and NEVER even thought about what it cost him. ...Maybe thinking that it WAS his mess, maybe it should cost a bit to help clean it up?

5. h wanted to hear the reasons why I still wanted to be M to him...this actually seemed like a very big part of the conversation

6. h said he thinks I've defaulted to the "devil" I "know" (doesn't feel CHOSEN)

I think CJ is far to frightened to even ask this of me...or even contemplate it. After all, HE cheated twice, HE lied his a$$ off, he lost his job, I'm still making most of the income (since 2002), and our sex life is in the toilet.

I can totally see CJ as feeling like the default option, and a broken one at that..good heaven's that CAN'T be good for his libido!!

7. h said that he couldn't imagine us ever apart -- that I am part of his DNA

That is awesome. CJ has said that he wants to be with me forever...that he will NEVER let anything like the A's happen again....but DNA? it doesn't GET any tighter than that!

8. H asked to hear praise for how hard he's been working -- to hear appreciation for the good stuff that he's been doing for our M (WOA?? My h? )

2X4 on the head for Shiny...CJ's been laying hints about how hard he's working on various projects, resumes, interviews for volunteer boards, and what did I do on Monday?

Came home exhausted: 6 hours on my feet teaching, then I hit two grocery stores, the mall and a bakery on the way home. I was visibly grumpy so he asked.

I noted my sore feet, my exhaustion, my period had started, I hadn't had time for lunch...And it seems like if this house is to get cleaned I'M the one who has to start it!!!

OMG...the poor guy stopped working on his laptop and cleaned the bathroom and kitchen floors. Before he got too far along I told him I didn't mean for him to do it all NOW...just that it would be nice once in a while not to come home to such a mess.

I have to remember that he just doesn't SEE the dirt, cat hair, etc. like I do. He's content.

I really need to give him more praise and NOTE the little niceties.


10. h doesn't want to "pay" for this for the rest of his life

11. Part of "trust" to h means not only that I believe in his fidelity but also that I "trust" him as he is ("unconditional love")

CJ too expressed fears of having to "Pay" forever...but what do they mean by this? I'm pretty sure, Sage, that like me, you're not hitting your H over the head with this on an ongoing basis...

And then I feel that I DO have to "pay" for this forvever myself...why shouldn't he?

But maybe your next point hits home:

12. h said that his fear was that he'd go merrily along only to hit "landmines" because of something he said or did that triggered the A in my mind. It seems like the unpredictability is a BIG factor for him (would it help to be more clear with him about what my triggers are?). He used the word "LANDMINE" quite a bit

I think CJ feels this way too...because all it can take is a clue on Jeopardy that deals with the Province OW lives in and he KNOWS I'm thinking about all of that.

Or does he? He may be walking on eggshells awaiting those landmines just like your H. So SHOULD we be more clear on our triggers?

Shows with A-themes (especially made light of), mention of OW's home province, anything Jodie Foster ( one of my and CJ's former favourite actresses...I intuited, and later had confirmed that he thought OW looked like Jodie, mentioned it to her, and watched whatever he could of Jodie while they were apart and longing for eachother...grrrr )....

...the times of year when the big bombs hit. When he mentions jobs that would have him flying to large cities. When he's on that laptop for a loong time...just can't help that one, it's how he communicated with HER.

Now it's time for me to digest all of this...thanks for the unwitting homework, Sage!!

Shiny