I'm a bit late to join this thread hairdog but for what it's worth (after a fairly disappointing weekend) I think the line from Mrs H-Dog "I fear our marriage, no matter how good it is, will never be good enough for you, and neither will I." is probably as close to the truth as it gets. My W is similar to yours, well, maybe a little more compliant but even when she makes her maximum effort it still feels to me that her heart just isn't in it. While watching TV my leg touched hers (nearly accidentally) and she instinctively moved slightly to break contact. In my momentary loss of HOM I told her that I was holding back so much of the real me that if I was to be my true self she would be so overwhelmed with physical contact, love and sex that she would freak out within a week. I'm sure that most of us HDs are much the same. We want to cuddle up while watching TV - not sit in "our own" chairs. We want to snog - not peck on the cheek. We want to flirt and fondle - not play political mind games. Most of all we want passionate spontaneous love making - not mercy sex at a fixed time and place. Realistically, my W is just not the sort of person that can ever come close to meeting these needs and I suspect Mrs H-Dog is never going to come close to meeting them either hairdog. SD - Sorry to sound so defeatist.
You're not sounding defeatist, suprdave, just realistic. The more I thought about W's statement that I will never be happy, the more I realized that it's wrong. I could very easily be happiER if we had some frequency, and some more non-sexual physical intimacy, and I think she would be happier, too.
What I think that statement was, was projection. She's the one that, in her present state of mind, doesn't think she'll ever be "happy." And, to her, it seems like "happy" is a goal to be reached (or NOT reached). I tend to think of it as a process...becoming happier. I think she has some serious self-esteem problems right now, and can't really imagine why I would stick around, much less love her. So she's setting this (fictional) impending divorce up as being MY fault, because, no matter how hard she tries, I won't ever be happy with the marriage or with her.
I can't convince her of her wrong-mindedness on this issue. She won't listen to me because I am an interested party, and, unfortunately, her adversary it seems. I gave her the number of a therapist. It's up to her to seek her way out. I can help to some extent, but I can't force her to go.
Last weekend, she and I played Pente, a board game. She was just learning, but refused to take any help I offered. She won the first game. I then proceeded to win all but one of the next 15 games. After the final win, she upended the board, sending these small glass beads flying. She then went upstairs to bed. I didn't follow until about an hour later, after she had gone to sleep.
The game presents its own microcosm of our world. It's one of the things that I am clearly better at than her. She can't stand this, and is faced, time and time again with her own failure. She can't stand that, yet refuses any guidance on the matter.
HD Hubby and I used to play Pente years ago, good game
I don't get why she was so pissed at not winning more games. After all, she just learned the game. Aparently not quite learned it. It takes practice. I could never win against H at checkers. He is the ultimate champ at that. But I will play with him if he asks. I don't think I am very challenging in checkers so he plays that on the computer lol.
Sounds to me like she is in some sort of competition with you on "everything"
This sounds exactly like MY relationship. I too have to hold WAY back. If I did the things that I want to do, she would be completely overwelmed. The LD sees this as being "Needy". Us HD people need to much physical closeness. It is the difference in love languages. I want EVERYTHING physically, she wants talking with at least 3 feet between us. I too suspect that our LD wives KNOW they there is virtually no chance that they will ever be women enough for us. It also makes it hard for me to actually put forth much effort to meet her needs, since I know that there is less then a 50/50 chance of her ever being able to meet even my minimum needs. Now the question all of us HD men has to ask is would it be easier to work on correcting the situation with our wives, or with starting all over and developing a new relationship with someone else. So then the question becomes, which has the greater probablity of achieving what we want, a HD relationship? A new relationship, or the old wife?
HD... I think there is some meaning to the fact that she agreed to play a board game where she has the disadvantage. It feels like she has something to prove, and that she is your competitor. her fighting nature is working against her in the marriage; clearly you are both unique individuals and somehow have to get back to the teamwork notion. I sense she really needs to feel valued by you.
Quote: I sense she really needs to feel valued by you.
I think you're right. She has said as much to me, especially regarding the move to KC. My question is, I guess, how does one show this value? I guess this must be my LD area. I can compliment her on her looks because I see her beauty every day. She doesn't appreciate this. I can compliment her on how she handled a client when she tells me about her work. She appreciates this more, but I think she really needs me to just listen to her tell these sorts of stories. How do I show my appreciation that she moved here?
Maybe I am wrong, but seems to me she wants you to show your appreciation for her moving here by moving to a new house farther away from your ex. Unfortunately that would include moving away from your children by that marriage. I recall several of your fights where she brought up that house where she wanted to move to.
It does seem that the only way Hairy can prove that he supports her move is to make a move himself. AND if it includes the ultimate sacrifice (moving away from his kids) all the better.
I would compromise with her, HD. Ask her for 5 years to stay closer to your children and then you will be up for anything she has in mind. Or however long you think it would be prudent to stay close to them. That way, she knows that you are not a stick in the mud who expects her to do all the moving and sacrificing but you also get to stay near the kids. D9 is the only wrench in the situation as she most certainly deserves to have Dad close by, just as her siblings did. But perhaps by then CrazyXW will have moved on herself, who knows.
I don't know what to say about the Pente game. Except to say that you shoulda ended the match WAAAAAY before it got to that point! Say you are tired, say your eyes hurt from so much concentration, whatever, but that is like teasing a pit bull imo, lol.
Your Pente game incident reminds me so clearly of what happens every time I try to do a project around the house with my H. He expects me to do all the research and buy and organize all the tools and materials. Then he invariably loses his temper because he doesn't know what he's doing and refuses to take instruction from me. So, I have to be desperate for assistance before I'll ask for his help.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
CeMar, Just like you I long to be able to express my HDness freely with a like minded woman but even if we could bear to leave our children what is the chance of us finding our very own honeypot? Second marriages are less likely to succeed than first and there is no guarantee of finding an HDW - hairdog did not and he's a clever pup. A few years ago when I was in despair I looked hard for an HD woman. I went to various evening classes, the gym etc and came into contact with loads of women - mostly single/divorced. Over time, five of them showed an interest in me and I flirted with them and even had quite deep conversations about sex etc. Only one was obviously HD and well up for it and although I wanted to be with her and came close to leaving for her there was something about her general personality that made me uncomfortable. The fact is I LIKE my W. She is a lovely person. In the future I want to have grandchildren come to stay and all those lovely family things that make life worth living. I know that you are very much like me CeMar and I know that we will never get everything we need. Our Ws probably do know that they will never be woman enough for us as you say but what we have to do is give them the encouragement and opportunity to be woman enough for THEMSELVES. Perhaps then we will get more of what WE want. SD
