How about some Gross Generalizations??

[Lillieperl]

However, there is NO comparison to sharing sexual intimacy with him. That is a whole different realm of sharing, imo. It is sharing your most innermost self...sharing who I am

Ditto this. And one of the things that makes it so special is that neither of us shares this part of ourselves with anyone else.

Isn't this one of the things that makes an affair such a betrayal. Someone else was admitted into that special place that was just reserved for you two.

This could be a bad analogy: suppose your beloved gave you a work of art he created or something he made. He said he made it especially for you. A piece of jewelry or something. You know you're the only person in the world wearing this piece of jewelry. Then you find out he stamped them out of a machine and gave everyone else in his circle the very same thing-- his mom, the postman, the kids soccer coach.

I repeat: one of the things that makes sexual sharing special and unique is that it is not shared with anyone else. I know that if you both like basketball, watching a game with him is not like watching a game with anyone else. Music is a good example, because my bf and I are in a choir together and play guitars together. But he CAN sing with others and play the guitar with others. Playing the guitar with him is still unique and very special. BUT he doesn't ML with ANYONE ELSE. To me this makes it very special.

[CeMar]

honeypot:

I have said this before, as the HD male, we have to put forth far more effort to improve the relationship then the LD women has to. My wife today is less then 5% of the women she once was (in terms of frequency). So, I as the HD male not only must become that wonderful guy that she had early in her relationship, but I must even go BEYOND anything that I ever was. In effect, it seems like us HD guys must become MORE then 100% of the man we once were, and in exchange, the LD women might become 20-30 % of the women she once was. She wants things from me that iI have NEVER given before, and in exchange, there might be SLIGHT improvement. Here are the tasks that each of us has to improve our marriage:

Her: Improve her desire for sex
Him: Improve EVERYTHING else.

[Lillieperl]

This parallels Mojo's situation on the other thread. Mr. Mojo shows some effort so Mojo had to be Extra Sweet and Appreciative and Accommodating so he won't backslide. Geez, talk about having to do all the work. I still think LDs are lazy and want to be taken care of! (Incoming frying pans! )

[SuzeeQue]

Hey all,

I agree with everyone so far. As the HDW I feel like I am doing all the work..... If I am a good girl and don't say anything to upset H or demand anything from him I "might " get sex if he is so inclined but OMG if I do or say anything teasingly or seductively that might put pressure on him IE: be myself...then I might as well sleep on the couch. I am by nature a very outgoing, sexual person... my husband says I wear my sexuality on my sleeve. I guess that is in reference to my big b**bs 32F but I dont feel that way at all. The only person I ever feel sexual towards is him!!! But that has led to many rejections so....now I hide my body when we go out because I am thinking that if i don't get the sexual attention from my husband then I certainly don't need to get it from anybody else..... And yes in previous posts I have said i am slightly over weight. I am not really ( I am just obsessed with being skinny) consquently I never hide my body from him...I walk around the house with the least amount of clothing appropriate with a S9 and sleep naked right along side him......so

[MPT]

But I had to ask this:
Are you saying that you can get that special and unique feeling no matter what you are doing with him?

Yes and no, I'm saying that the feeling exists, independent of the activity...for me The most inventive, frequent, exciting sex ever is not what generates the feeling. Neither does growing the most spectacular vegetable garden (Ha! Not happening with this year's weather, unless we decide to grow rice. )) Or even a conversation about serious, meaningful stuff.

It's hard to explain. It's just how it works for me. I'll ask him just to be sure, but I think this is the way it works for my H too. I've asked him why he didn't become resentful and angry and think of me as a selfish, lazy b*tch when we were in our SSM. His response to that question makes me think this is the way it works for him too.

MPT

[SolidMechanic]

People can have sex without approaching any vestige of intimacy. I can see that in a relationship that is already fairly healthy, sex *is* a conduit to intimacy. Sometimes in a troubled relationship sex can still be good, but I think it safe to say that it doesn't necessarily engender intimacy.

Dear Mrs. NOP,

IMO, it's not that sexuality is a conduit to intimacy. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it's just for fun or physical release. I think the more important issue is that lack of sex is an impediment to all forms of intimacy in a marriage.

A book I'm reading called "Rekindling Desire" says that in a marriage with a healthy sex life, sex takes up 10-15% of the marriage's emotional energy. But with an unhealthy sex life, sex takes up 50-70% of the emotional energy. I think the authors pulled these numbers out their butts, but they express the idea that I am trying to get across.

BTW, thank you for posting to this bored. I hope someday soon I can start having intelligent conversations about my marital problems with my wife, instead of just having them with people on the Internet.

Regards,

SM

[MrsNOP]

I think the two kinds of intimacy are interrelated in a marriage.

SM,

I absolutely agree. I also believe strongly that one spouse should not keep working alone for an extended period of time. Of course, I also don't know what to do when the spouse won't participate or cooperate after the issue/s have been delineated clearly and the understanding is clear that the relationship is going to be totally destroyed.

While I had decided in years' past that my issues were not ones I was willing to die for, ie. divorce over, NOP had reached a point (no children in the nest & passing through middle-age) that he was no longer willing to live in a marital shadow-world.

However, we were *both* willing to work on the marriage and it took about 2 years to hammer out the details, work our way through the relational poop clogging our pipes, and work out most of the kinks. The upshot is that we both love each other, we have had for the most part a good life together, we haven't managed to damage each other irreparably, and when things are working properly, we enjoy each other tremendously.

We aren't just making love on a regular basis, we are interacting fully in each other's life. Isn't that the goal?

MrsNOP -

[SolidMechanic]

We aren't just making love on a regular basis, we are interacting fully in each other's life. Isn't that the goal?

MrsNOP -

Yup!

Here's hoping my W and I can get there someday, too.

SM

[NOPkins]

Lillie said:
---------------
..... Geez, talk about having to do all the work. I still think LDs are lazy and want to be taken care of! (Incoming frying pans! )
---------------

Okay. I have ignored this up until now.

This is a crock full to the brim and overflowing with crap.

I have not doubt that you feel you are doing all the work. I know I did. I also have absolutely no doubt that IF down the line, you manage to be in a more normal relationship, you will find that the effort to get there is closer to equal between partners than you can imagine right now.

From my personal experience, MrsNOP may be a lot of things, but LAZY has never entered the picture.

Having had more sexual encounters than most, I can tell you that some of the laziest sexual experiences I have had, have come from some of the most 'demanding' people.

Just because someone doesn't want to do what you want to do, does NOT make them lazy. This is illogical.

Unless you have hard proof, I have to simply dismiss your assertion.

Al the best,
-NOPkins-

[MJontheMend]

Lilli and NOP,

I agree with both of you. I don't believe that Mrs. NOP is lazy and I believe that Lilli's bf gives every appearance of being lazy. Once again, I feel the need to state that the situation of the HDM and the sich of the HDW are not exactly the same. It's not as though the sexual problem throws your relationship into a complete gender role reversal. HDW have to deal with the sexual issue on top of all the usual "jerky" male behavior one sees depicted semi-accurately in a typical sit-com. I am going to go way out on a limb and state that frequently a woman becomes LD in reaction to "jerky" behavior and frequently a man becomes LD as an extension of "jerky" behavior. The same guy who calls you a nag because you asked him nicely to mow the lawn can decide that you're a nag because you asked him nicely to f*ck you. In either case, you're left feeling like you've married someone who is unpleasant and lazy.