Quote: I've also noticed that several here who have experienced sexual "victories" in their M have soon thereafter posted that they still weren't satisfied
My bf frequently plays the "you're never satisfied" card on me. I have his ex to thank for that knee-jerk reflex,
But are HDs truly never satisfied? Are LDs afraid that they will change and it still won't be "good enough" for us? Do they see us as bottomless pits of suggestions, corrections, ways to improve them?
My W has used the "you'd never be satisfied" line on me, but we've never had sex frequently enough to see. I'm pretty sure that when we first M, she was afraid of what saying "YES" to my desire for sex would mean.
As far as HDs ever being satisfied goes, I've told my W that it's obvious that I can live with a lot less than I want and need. Why should she assume that I would be unreasonable if I got more?
Quote: Let me just run this up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes.
Does one finger count?
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Did I mention this is a gross generalization? But I'm always searching for patterns. Or maybe this stuff is already obvious to everyone but me. Does it seem that IN GENERAL the LD person:
1) is more in need of being taken care of in order to want to be intimate (examples: GEL's husband likes the house clean; it makes him feel cared for. Wilde's wife what's to share decision-making even in small things like where to go for dinner. Corri wants her husband to take an interest in her projects. HD's want these things, too, but they are not a pre-condition of intimacy.)
I think the first red flag for me here is the assumption that sex equals intimacy.
How is the desire for sex as a pre-condition to relational intimacy (to "lube" the relationship) any different than the desire for relational intimacy as a pre-condition to sex (to "lube" the sex)? Other than difference of preconditional type?
In other words, you have determined that what YOU need is sex in order for your relationship to function at a level you find acceptable. And there's nothing wrong with that. However, should you really discount the needs that your SO might have determined to be necessary for him/her, whether it is a sense of caring via clean house, an interest in their interests, or a desire for shared decision making?
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As I said in another thread, I used to accuse my husband of "hiding in the bushes" while I stood in the clearing revealing myself, sticking my neck out, taking the emotional risks. LDs seem more private, self-protective, defensive (if you will), sensitive to criticism... well, here goes: LAZY (when it comes to the R). There I've said it.
Did I mention these were GROSS generalizations? (Here come the frying pans!)
The reality is that for just about every negative characteristic presented, there is a corresponding positive - and that goes for either "side". Is it assertive or domineering? Conflict avoider or peacekeeper?
Our very strengths, if not tempered within a loving relationship, can become our weakness or a tool with which we hurt our lovers. I'll disarm the nuclear missiles I have out back, if you roll up the trolling net.
Quote: Actually the only thing I want to change about THIS bf is the sex. I really like just about every other thing about him.
Lillie...I can't help but notice that you are still focusing on changing him. YOU cannot ever change HIM, that's up to him. If he has an issue with sex that's definitely a problem housed within him that he's going to have to work on...let go of focusing on him.
I know you've been reading many of the posts on here so I'm sure that you've noticed that many of the people who have had success repairing their relationships or recovering their sex lives on this board have at some point realized that they had to make changes within themselves...which as a result gets the ball of change rolling.
By taking a close look at what you could be doing, conciously or not...by talking or by actions and then working on those things that you do have control over...you will initiate change.
Concentrate on yourself...stop trying to fix him, that's an exercise in futility. Believe me, I kept trying to fix/help my LDH (who never initiated sex with me, but kept telling me it wasn't me...he just never thought about it). This man is now finally beginning to come out of his shell now that I started working on me...I started changing, which meant he had two choices...jump ship because reacting to the changes I initate is too difficult for him...or decide he loves me enough to roll with the changes and see what happens...fortunatley for me I'm loved I'm sure you will find you are too
Mrs NOP, you took that well! Your point of view is very helpful. I read your post over several times, but it hasn't quite sunk in. Bf and I both want sex and intimacy. I want both more than he wants both (as near as I can tell(I'm the one pushing for both). His needs in BOTH departments seem to be less than mine. He waits for me to initiate sex, R discussions, visits to therapists, then he goes along. In other areas (shopping, cooking, laundry) he does not wait for me but steps up to the plate and does his part. Not sure if this has anything to do with your post. I'll read it again tomorrow.
Green, I'm very willing to change in whatever way will constitute greater mental/spiritual/emotional/physical health for ME. I'M the one who's been in therapy for 30 years. But I'd be lying if I said I don't hope to see a change in him. I'm not satisfied with this part of our R. I'm not working on this so I'LL become okay with no sex, because I think a R with no sex isn't very healthy. But of course, I'm focusing on ME and how I need to change. I just revealed to y'all my hidden agenda. Believe me, I am NOT on his case about this. I know that would be counterproductive.
When he was drinking a lot, I went to alanon. Not to get him to stop (they warn you that that doesn't work), but I knew that I also was not going to become "okay" with his drinking. I was going to take care of myself and get okay with myself. I knew that if he didn't stop drinking, I would leave him. As it was, the surgery came along and that was the break we both needed (in both senses of the word). If he hadn't stopped at that point, I would already be gone.
One of my first posts on this board was about sex after sobriety. If anyone saw the re-run of Sex in the City last night, Carrie's guy said he had never had sex sober before. That's my bf. I think there are some unique circumstances surrounding LD and being newly sober.
Mrs NOP, you took that well! Your point of view is very helpful. I read your post over several times, but it hasn't quite sunk in. Bf and I both want sex and intimacy. I want both more than he wants both, as near as I can tell(I'm the one pushing for both). His needs in BOTH departments seem to be less than mine. He waits for me to initiate sex, R discussions, visits to therapists, then he goes along. In other areas (shopping, cooking, laundry) he does not wait for me but steps up to the plate and does his part. Not sure if this has anything to do with your post. I'll read it again tomorrow.
Green, I'm very willing to change in whatever way will constitute greater mental/spiritual/emotional/physical health for ME. I'M the one who's been in therapy for 30 years. But I'd be lying if I said I don't hope to see a change in him. I'm not satisfied with this part of our R. I'm not working on this so I'LL become okay with no sex, because I think an R with no sex isn't very healthy. I am indeed focusing on ME and how I need to change. I know I'm the only one I can change. Believe me, I am NOT on his case about this. I know that would be counterproductive.
When he was drinking a lot, I went to alanon. Not to get him to stop (they warn you that that doesn't work), but I knew that I also was not going to become "okay" with his drinking. I was going to take care of myself and get okay with myself, but I knew that if he didn't stop drinking, I would leave him. As it was, the surgery came along and that was the break we both needed (in both senses of the word). If he hadn't stopped at that point, I would already be gone.
One of my first posts on this board was about sex after sobriety. If anyone saw the re-run of Sex in the City last night, Carrie's guy said he had never had sex sober before. That's my bf. I think there are some unique circumstances surrounding LD and being newly sober.
I have always considered sex to be an emotion and to consider it the ULTIMATE intimacy. Now for LD's emotional closeness is their ideal intimacy. Now for a LD women, it is real hard for them to understand that this form of intimacy ONLY applies to them, and that SEX is the form of intimacy that their husbands need.
All of the wonderful things my bf does for me-- singing with me, making me a cake for Rosh Hashana, taking care of the dog and cats, bringing me diet cokes, landscaping my yard, building me a pantry, checking the oil in my car and adding oil when it needs it-- all of these things are soooo sweet and so appreciated (he really is an 'acts of service' guy)...BUT these are things that he could legitimately do for others, too. Even a special, deep conversation is something he could share with someone else (friend, daughters, his mom)... Physical sexual intimacy is just for me, a unique way that we experience each other, something he doesn't do for or with anyone else, a type of intimacy that he doesn't share with anyone else. Do LDs really understand how unique and special sexual sharing is, or do they equate it with shopping together or working in the garden together?
