I understand how you feel and what is going on. I am thinking through some ideas for you. Hang on. I will get back to you late tonight or tomorrow with some ideas.
MM. What Corri needs now is for her husband to perform the equivalent of plodding across the parking lot to hug her and tell her he loves her, just like your husband did.
Lillie. You are always welcome to post whatever you like on these forums. If I may suggest that you go back and read through Corri's past posts so that you understand a bit more about where she is at, your posts may be more on target.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
No, it doesn't always have to be a great emotional encounter. As we had been discussing his needs and my needs for some time prior to this encounter, he understood well what I was asking of him. He even told me he did the next day. I wasn't asking him to have the 'right' reason. I was asking him to communicate with me. He feels he shouldn't have to. Had he made even the slightest attempt, I probably would have f*cked his brains out, I am that desperate.
Lil: If this is truly how you see things, no wonder you aren't getting laid. Sex isn't the issue. Whether I like sex or not isn't the issue. Whether I can f*ck and swing from the chandliers isn't the issue. Whether I can allow him to use my body to get off because Paula Cole turned him on isn't the issue.
Corrie, I'm asking you to explain it to me. You said:
Quote: If this is truly how you see things, no wonder you aren't getting laid. Sex isn't the issue. Whether I like sex or not isn't the issue. Whether I can f*ck and swing from the chandliers isn't the issue. Whether I can allow him to use my body to get off because Paula Cole turned him on isn't the issue.
This is the second time (it was in another thread) you've told me I'm way off, but you still haven't told me exactly how I'm way off. I asked you then, too, when I said:
Quote: Please tell me exactly how I'm off the mark/on another planet? I'm not saying I'm not, but just tell me how? I'm so glad to have the opportunity to present my possibly misguided assumptions to an LD person to explain to me
and you didn't respond.
Would you please tell me where I am so wrong. I need to learn. Tell me precisely why I am not getting laid. Obviously, even though I've read all of Schnarch's books, SSM, and the Five Languages of Love, I'm still missing something very important.
What exactly did you want your H to say in answer to your "why?"
Tonight when my H and I went to bed, he cuddled up close to me. I knew he wanted to have sex. I could tell he wasn't real sure how to proceed given the previous two nights of not connecting.
He finally said to me:
"Would you want to make love with me tonight?"
And I said, "maybe."
We laid there in our cuddle position and I could tell he was having a really hard time figuring out just what the heck to say to me. Well, not so much what to say, but I could tell he was more worried about saying the 'wrong' thing and blowing it. So I said to him:
"Honey, this would be a really good time for you to practice your verbal expression."
So he said, "Well. I'd really like it if you would make love with me."
ME: "Okay. Why?"
A few moments pass.
HIM: "Because I really do want to be close to you."
Well... I go from 0 to 50 in about .5 seconds flat. And I said, "Now, did that really hurt so much?" And he chuckled and said no.
And I proceeded to f*ck that man's brains out with every ounce of desire I could possibly call forth from my body. It was my way of saying 'thank you' to him in a way that was meaningful to him. It wasn't faked. It was genuine, and he could tell.
Lil, it says it in all the books. Lack of sex in a relationship is not the problem (even though it may feel like it). It is a symptom of a bigger problem. It is about communicating and trusting and willing to be vulnerable with the person you are closest to, and trusting that they aren't going to drop you.
I've been down the road of increasing frequency. I understand how important sex is to my H, even though it isn't as important for me. But just increasing frequency isn't the end goal. It is going beyond frequency to connecting with your spouse on an intimate, meaningful level that makes sex all the better. The only way to do that is for spouses to 'feed' one another in the ways which are meaningful to the other. It is about recognizing and respecting the needs of the other and holding them in as high regard as you do your own needs. It's about meeting each other half way, not necessarily all for self, but also for other in equal measure.
My H made a big step toward me tonight. I know how hard that was for him, even though it may not seem like a big deal to me or anyone else. He put me above his "I shouldn't have to."
You carry an enormous expectation of your bf. But just because you have that expectation does not mean you 'deserve' it, and he capitulates. Demanding that someone meet your 'expectation' because you damn well deserve it, regardless of their own wants and needs, removes their sense of 'choice.'
I think what you have to do is not figure out how to get laid, but figure out how to ask your bf to meet you half way, and how you can meet him half way. That requires a bit of soul searching on both parts, a few well placed boundaries, and a whole lot of honest communicating. There may be fur flying for awhile... that's part of it... but until you can see past 'lack of sex in my life' you will continue in the cycle.
I hope that makes some kind of sense.
Corri
P.S. I am up typing this because good sex energizes me, and puts my H to sleep.
Thanks. I'm up tonight because the coyotes were barking so loud out in back of my house that I couldn't sleep! Finally it's started to rain, so maybe that will slow them down. Last week our dog was attacked by something and had to have six stitches in his head. We think it was a javelina. It's sometimes scary out here in the country at night.
I assure you I'm not demanding any sex from my bf. I have never demanded, and certainly never acted like I "damn well deserve it." You're mistaking me for his ex-- he does the same thing. I may not be terribly diplomatic on this board, but I'm reasonably gentle in person. I also realize that he's still recovering from quad bypass surgery, he's out of work (therefore no insurance), no savings, has a mom who needs a keeper, shares custody of twin teenage girls (and has never missed child support until NOW when he has virtually no income except unemployment), and-- the biggie-- has given up drinking after a lifetime of drinking. He's very much in crisis. He's treading water. I'm the one who, after he told me about the chest pains, gave him two aspirin to chew, and drove him to the ER. I was supposed to be out of town that weekend and the trip got cancelled. Good thing, because I'm sure he wouldn't have gone. He told me afterward that he had had chest pains a couple of months before, but hadn't said anything at the time. It was out here at my house, one hour from the nearest hospital. I'm somewhat burnt out. My husband, who died four years ago, was chronically ill. I'm real burnt out. Frankly, I'd like some physical nurturing, but I'm not pressuring him for anything at the moment.
Clearly, for my own sake, these are issues I need to reach some resolution on, or they will keep coming up. The man I dated before my husband also had heart problems. The three men I have loved in the last 20 years (before my bf) are all dead now. Yikes! What's up with that?
I think you're right. We need to meet each other halfway. Frankly, I don't know how much he can give at this point.
Quote: I could tell he was more worried about saying the 'wrong' thing and blowing it. So I said to him:
"Honey, this would be a really good time for you to practice your verbal expression."
I understand the importance of the EC to you at moments like this. You did a good job of explaining it. But everything would depend on the nuances of voice and body language in this exchange. Just reading it cold, it makes me think of parents who prompt their kids in a rising inflection, "Now what do you say?" and then pat them on the head and give them the treat after they say, "please."
I am so happy that you and H were able to get to that win-win place. Your response sure showed H he was not losing by putting himself out there for you.
Quote: I understand the importance of the EC to you at moments like this. You did a good job of explaining it. But everything would depend on the nuances of voice and body language in this exchange. Just reading it cold, it makes me think of parents who prompt their kids in a rising inflection, "Now what do you say?" and then pat them on the head and give them the treat after they say, "please."
And I understand your view of this. But tell me. If you bf ups the frequency, will you merely take it as your due and move on? Where does that leave him?
Yes, reading it cold does make it sound the way you said. What you are not putting into the mix is the years of struggle that have gone before that give context to the situation at hand.
But beyond that, if a sentence is all I need to hear in order for him to get what he needs... how is that patronizing unless one choses to make it so?
EC is not only important to LDs. It is as important to HDs. We just express it in different manners. This is where those love languages come in. For the first time in years, my H spoke my LL. He made himself vulnerable to me and trusted that I would not let him fall. The fact that he made that effort alone put me in a place where there was NO WAY ON PLANET EARTH that I would let him down... I would see mountains moved, oceans drained, the heavens torn asunder before I would ever consider throwing that back in his face.
Quote: The fact that he made that effort alone put me in a place where there was NO WAY ON PLANET EARTH that I would let him down... I would see mountains moved, oceans drained, the heavens torn asunder before I would ever consider throwing that back in his face.
I believe you HDs call this desire.
I am really happy for you and your H. However, taking into account that I can't speak for all HD folk, that isn't what I call desire. What you described is definitely a passionate expression of love but it isn't sexual desire. Sexual desire is an aching longing, not a loving flow of generousity.
What could your H do that would make you ache and long to feel his body joined with yours? He doesn't just want to receive from you sexually. He wants to be able to give to you sexually and he can't because you've implied that there is nothing sexual that you want. IMO this is what HD folk mean when they speak of desire. We "want to be wanted" sexually.
I know others will disagree but IMO it's great for someone to want to have sex with you because they love you but it's better for someone to want to have sex with you because they love you AND they desire you sexually. This is why I basically told my H that I will not accept the premise that he is doing me a favor by having sex with me. The only thing I am willing to trade for sex is sex.
Perhaps, your H feels differently and he will continue to give you what you need in exchange for sex. I just thought that I should alert you that it is possible that he is on the same wavelength as me.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I may not be terribly diplomatic on this board, but I'm reasonably gentle in person. I also realize that he's still recovering from quad bypass surgery, he's out of work (therefore no insurance), no savings, has a mom who needs a keeper, shares custody of twin teenage girls (and has never missed child support until NOW when he has virtually no income except unemployment), and-- the biggie-- has given up drinking after a lifetime of drinking. He's very much in crisis. He's treading water. I'm the one who, after he told me about the chest pains, gave him two aspirin to chew, and drove him to the ER. I was supposed to be out of town that weekend and the trip got cancelled. Good thing, because I'm sure he wouldn't have gone. He told me afterward that he had had chest pains a couple of months before, but hadn't said anything at the time. It was out here at my house, one hour from the nearest hospital. I'm somewhat burnt out. My husband, who died four years ago, was chronically ill. I'm real burnt out. Frankly, I'd like some physical nurturing, but I'm not pressuring him for anything at the moment. 