Quote: "If you are ever up to it, it'd be interesting to hear what you said to NOP that finally broke through... I realize it takes two, not taking anything away from NOP, but... I'm at a loss as to how to 'get through' to my H." End Quote:
Corri, it wasn't what I said, because heaven knows I had said it before - it was that NOP made a choice to think about it (kinda in the same way the LD spouse can choose to ML whether or not the world has been all straightened out).
Let me 'splain.
We have been actively attempting to address this issue for at least 2 years with the last year seeing the most improvement AND the most disruption (insert I'm leaving threats, plate throwing & attempted sampler-cide).
When discussing our lack of sex, I would iterate my "side" as an attempt to say that there's more to this than a lack of sexual relations. He had heard it all before and I think that he saw it as me just dragging out past history as some type of counteraction to him and the goal.
If you read the flying plate link, you will discover that you responded several times to NOP and girl - you were so right on!
I know from reading NOP's earlier posts and being an integral part of this particular equation, that what is presented here by participants is (and naturally so) very one-sided. I don't mean that in a negative way - but just to note that if we all had clear views and insight into our relationships/partners, that we might not be here in the first place. Does that make sense? The point is that my major issues and problems in the relationship weren't making it into NOP's filter as being of equal importance. I wouldn't attribute that to malice, but it's hard to acknowledge your partner's stubbed toe pain (as assessed by you) when your leg is amputated.
And what you actually have are two one-legged people.
As many have experienced, working out sexual/relational issues involves a few steps forward, a few steps back and the occasional head-first tumble down 2 flights of stairs.
The plate incident was one of those tumbles - in a conversation I initiated about a show/article about sexual inhibitions NOP mentioned hopefully that maybe it would help me with my problems. First, it was the f*cking sex talk *again* and second the emphasis was on it being *my* problem so I raced from 0 to 60 on the angryometer in a matter of nanoseconds and the plate sailed across the room.
Please note that I have never, in the decades we've been married, thrown anything.
The sampler incident began as a result of me having fallen asleep on the couch the night before (IIRC) which is a huge blinking bullseye for NOP. NOP's reaction was to withdraw some the next day and as we discussed it I pointed out that we had been making progress. However, when on the road to recovery, every failure/slip is not taken as an individual occurance, every failure/slip triggers the past umpteen years of anger & frustration. I asked for a little bit of grace as I thought it was clear that I was trying and that's when NOP pointed out that it would be a long time before he could trust me.
That's when I lost it.
I had reached as far as I could go without a reciprocal dealing of issues. Note, NOP had been doing so much each day toward establishing our relationship, but my biggest issue was the years I felt relegated to the back-burner of importance when wanting to spend time with him recreationally and now *anything* he did, marvelous as it was, did not address that issue. Our schedule right now literally doesn't give us the time to do anything recreationally. NOP had assured me that when life allows it, we would do some things together - so the thing I had been longing for for decades *couldn't* be met by him at this time, so I was "trusting" that it would be in the future. Hence the absolute fury (and I'm not given toward those) with the idea that I couldn't be trusted even though we were ML (limited as it was) while we had not and couldn't even attempt to spend time together recreationally.
The next day, when tempers had cooled, NOP's hurt over the year's of rejection came up and I realized that he still didn't see that my hurt was deep as well. Who can say what is equal? I realized that I was going to have difficulty ever opening up my heart if he could not acknowledge in a meaningful way, the pain that I had experienced. And I told him that until he gave creedence to the possibility that I was as hurt as he was, that I didn't see how there could ever be healing in our relationship.
He paused thoughtfully and said that he would think about that and try to grasp how painful it was for me. Like making love because you love your spouse, whether or not you're throbbing with desire - it was a step toward tenderness. That was another turning point for me.
I don't know what all the issues are in the relationships represented here. My specific circumstances won't apply to everyone, but if there were points of contention early in your relationship *even if they haven't come up in years*, if they were never addressed then they never went away. They may be just the thing that is disrupting your intimacy.
NOP *chose* to consider and acted upon that knowledge whether or not he agreed or understood. And in doing so, moved us to another level in our relationship.
I threw a plate once, well actually I slammed it down towards the floor. Did you know that corelle dishes DO break? I forget what the arguement was about but we both just stood there like that smiley face and couldn't believe after all the commercials about how they are unbreakable, it broke. LOL Annette
Welcome to the board. Not only are you one of the best WRITERS I've ever seen on here (and there are some GOOD ones!), but I personally gotta love someone who uses an old Doors song as their message header.
That's it. Don't really have anything meaningful to add, mostly because your lives are WAY less screwed up than mine, but just a "hiya."
Choc., who whenever he hears "Love Me Two Times" is reminded of our frequency during 2003...
I thought that horny bastard was going to keep her locked up forever and I have pressing questions to ask her re: homeschooling and other interests we may have in common.
Corri: Gawd, do I know about muddling. I have a tendency to lapse into a depressed apathy when confronted with chronic issues that take two to solve. Keeping the pot stirred and dealing with whatever floats up (or occasionally explodes out) isn't fun, but it must be done if things are ever going to change. And the scariest part of all, is that we can't control the direction of the change since there are two people involved. I'm glad NOP decided to strap mondo-sized spoon in hand and step close to the boiling water. He's a tenacious guy. I admire tenacity and I see that trait in you.
Annette: There were times when the heat from my head could have melted metal - so I can understand when Corelle can not withstand the occasional unleashing of the maelstrom that is within!
Choc: Thanks for the kind words - and don't you have good taste in music? OTOH, we could have been one of the top ten national nominees for the SSM What Not to Do poster-couple of the decade.
HD: Bedroom? Has NOP mentioned the computer he's setting up in there? {Suddenly, the light dawns upon me...}
Honeypot: Many good thoughts and wishes on your upcoming event - I adored being a mom and would have had a houseful of children had nature allowed. Homeschooling was a very good thing for us.
Quote Mrs NOP "...but if there were points of contention early in your relationship *even if they haven't come up in years*, if they were never addressed then they never went away. They may be just the thing that is disrupting your intimacy."
This is a very significant point. Loss of respect early on is probably the cause of a lot of SSMs - mine included.
ChocEyes - You won't make progress until you put the past behind you. SD
I'm so glad to hear from you. I'm especially glad that you have put your wants on the table for Mr. NOP to consider. What drives me to distraction is that I don't even know what my more my W would want in our R. I feel that my desire has been kidnapped and there is no ransom note forthcoming. Many posters on this board would call themselves "Fixers". My W seems quite satisfied with the ways things currently are, and does not see anything to "fix." I admire you for coming here and saying that it's not only the HD partner who wants changes.
Paul, My story is similar to yours. My H would say that I am the perfect wife to him. When asked, he would say that he could not ask for more and that there is NOTHING I need to change.
I have had to do a lot of reading between the lines and self-examination to figure out how to be a better mate to him. Some of it was quite obvious, some wasn't.
He has, to this day, never stated that I should or could do anything different. I just figured out what makes him tick and began making that a priority in my life (though I am the first to admit that I am sketchy on making it a DAILY part of my life).
So sometimes you will be gifted with a spouse who can spell it out for you, and other times you will have to do a lot of soul searching before it is clear to you.
The way that I knew I was on to what he really needed from me was that his happiness increased by a huge amount. He began to open up to me more and we grew closer together, although the sex stayed the same. So I knew I was on to something that he wanted from me, even though it was never spoken out loud.
I forget what the arguement was about but we both just stood there like that smiley face and couldn't believe after all the commercials about how they are unbreakable, it broke. LOL
