One downer to the night was that, upon returning home from the date and getting babysitters home, H tells me that he had a conversation with a coworker and the guy was saying that instead of taking his wife on a date alone, he would much rather spend an evening with his wife and their two daughters. I said, Yeah but he's not with those kids 24 hrs a day and neither are you. The wives need to get away from the children and their responsibilities once in a while. H said, Oh yeah I forgot about that part.
But he maintained that as the provider and protector of our family, he felt anxious and uneasy when we turned them over to someone else and just felt more relaxed when we were all together. "In other words, I prefer to be with our whole family together instead of just you."
(oh wives out there wouldn't you just melt to be referred to as "just you"??! Such a romantic devil he is..)
This really hurt my feelings but I realized that he is entitled to his opinion. I said Well I wish you wouldn't have said this as soon as we returned from our date because now I feel stupid that I pushed so hard for this date--I had no idea that you prefer to be together as a family instead of going on dates. I mean, H, we do EVERYTHING as a family so it is not like this is something that you have to worry about often.
I asked him if he thought it was important for H's and W's to spend time together anyway, even if their inclination was to be with the kids. He said yes definitely; it sets good example, blah blah. But it was clear that he was thinking this was a sacrifice to make to show your kids a good example instead of it being something that he looks forward to..being with "just me".
He kept saying, over and over, that once our kids are grown everything will be different. That right now, he just feels so responsible for them that he cannot relax when he knows they are being cared for by someone other than him or I. Not being able to relax ruins the evening with me--not that he doesn't want to be with me.
I know what he is saying but lemme say this:
It totally sucks to crave and want someone and to know, without a doubt, that it is not returned in kind.
So our first date of the year and night out without the kiddies was a small success. I wouldn't call it a raging smashing success but it was nice. Gotta start somewhere. If I left it up to him, I don't think we'd spend an evening away from them, ever. Then in twenty years when I had no feelings left for him he'd be crying in his soup wondering where it all went wrong.
That's all for now. Hope all of you are having happy and peaceful weekends.
P.S. I was having contractions yesterday 15 minutes apart and I told my husband. His reply: Oh great, that means you'll have the baby in about 2 weeks. LOL
I do have overdue babies and it takes me FOREVER to get them out, long labors and slow ctx. Oh well something is starting so it will hopefully be sometime in the next week to ten days.
Quote: The date was a little tense but we managed to overcome it, I am happy to say. This was the first time we have left our kids with a babysitter (and not Grandma) so that was a large part of his anxiety and wanting to return early. I knew this but I don't think I understood how much it was bothering him.
Ah, you didn't say that before. Now I understand his side of the story. We didn't go out at all for the first 5 years we had kids. W wasn't comfy leaving them with a sitter. She still calls home when we go out. S14 does most of the babysitting now, so within the last year we've gotten out much more; even if it is just a trip to the grocery and perhaps a bit of necking in the driveway before we come back in.
Quote: He agreed that if I was to take his rejection in stride, that he couldn't necessarily expect me to be HAPPY about it, lol. I told him that I was doing the best I could do..just being nice and laughing with him and if I didn't initiate affection, well, that was too bad. I wasn't doing it to prove a point or withhold, it is just what feels natural the day after being rejected. He said that's fine but as the days go by you tend to get meaner. I said, Well of course! You crapped out on me and there is no follow up as to what you will do instead. You just avoid it all, though you know that will not get you positive results. He then got on the subject of an "opening". This is something we have talked about in the past. When he lets me down and I pull back a little (or a lot, depending on the situation) he said he feels he can't initiate anything..that it is too much work and there is no opening in which he can make his big kahuna moves. I said that what he was really after was for me to do the work for him and say, Come and get me--it's okay now.
I'm not going to do that.
OMG Honey. Are we in parallel universes or what? You just described precisely what I mentioned in my thread had happened again last night, only you described it sooo much better than I could. Good to know it isn't just me getting pissy I suppose. To my W's credit, she did cuddle and try to warm me up. I just wasn't taking the bait, and bad bad me was putting roadblocks up in her way (I apologized for that just few minutes ago, because I felt bad about it). In a way though, it is better we didn't ML last night because I would not have been into it...I was still seething about the rejections and broken promises during the week (gosh, I HAVE to stop getting so bent about getting turned down).
Oh, and cool thing this morning...I felt the baby moving while we were ML. First time I've felt this one move. W felt it too. She had been saying just yesterday that she was concerned b/c she hadn't felt him moving yet.
Let me know if you figure out how to deal with the resentment that builds during the droughts and the expectation of everything being hunky-dory when all the planets finally align correctly for LD* to finally get in the mood.
If that happened to me in the pissy mood I was in last night, I probably would have said something to the effect of "Fine, why don't you invite them all to sleep in our bed too", very sarcastically of course! Maybe it is just another LD tactic to avoid sex? W does it too to some degree, although not as much as she used to.
Good news on the ctx! Praying for a quick delivery and healthy baby for you!
GGB and Honey, I don't want to scare you, but bf and I don't have any kids and we've gone through EXACTLY the same scenarios that you both describe-- talk about parallel universes!! If your respective spouses' LD is due to circumstances, then one would hope that things would resolve themselves once the circumstances change. (Unless, as Honey points out, by then you're so freakin' tired of beating your head against a brick wall that you just don't give a rat's a$$ any more...) But if it's Just the Way They Are... then welcome to my world... plenty of time, no one else around, out in the country, don't have to get up early for work... but still no sex.
It's funny... my bf had declined my advances sooo many times, and has not followed through on his verbal overtures, and has outright rejected me a few times... and I have outright rejected him exactly ONCE. He sat on the couch next to me when I was in a really dark bad mood and put his arm around me and I sat there for a few minutes, then said I was going to bed, got up and left. He has dwelled on that incident... he even brought it up in front of the C... how I had REJECTED him (is that violin music in the background?)(is that sarcasm in my tone?). ONE TIME and he's got it on the front page of the newspaper in 72 pt. type. Geez... when they get a rejection or even a lukewarm response it's a federal case, but we're supposed to take repeated rejection in stride...
Lil, We were married for four years before we had any kids and one benefit of that was that it allowed me to see his libido for what it was. I have no doubt that had we had kids right away he would have blamed everything on them and assured me that things would get better once they were older. He still does that and every single time I remind him that it was like this before they came along.
I have found that this repetition is necessary in dealing with my situation. Otherwise he will try to rewrite history every single time! It was NOT the kids that caused this, although I do think that they absolutely exacerbate the problem. Prior to having them, I actually felt suffocated by H at times. He loves/loved spending time with me and I needed my space at times. Seems funny to think about that now when I'm begging for time with him!
GGB, You know I knew I was leaving out the "first time with a babysitter" part of the story but I was pissed, what can I say. I wasn't intentionally leaving it out but I was not in the mood to say anything that would generate even the smallest iota of sympathy for him. So I opted to leave that morsel out.
He did okay. He has said that he does not want to do it again anytime soon. It wasn't "worth it". Perhaps we will leave babysitters for those extra special days when we want to be gone for a good part of the day, as opposed to just dinner and light shopping.
Or maybe I will say Screw you, H, I've found someone else to dine with and you can stay home with the brood!
HP: Congrats on a date that was, generally speaking, better than you had expected. Hey, and you got your ashes hauled, too.
W and I went to a farm that we get our vegetables from and worked all morning. It was hard work, but fun. We belong to a CSA (community supported agriculture) and get our fresh veggies every week. DD3 was with us, and it was a nice, if not a bit too soggy, day.
HP, I also wanted to mention that I'm going to be in St. Louis on the weekend of October 2. Can I come and visit the new baby with my W?
Sheesh...that would be just too high on the weirdness scale, I think.
Hairdog - taking a breather on Saturday evening while W is at the grocery store.
Quote: Otherwise he will try to rewrite history every single time!
It's interesting... when we first went to the C my bf told him that he had recently (four months before) stopped drinking after many years. The C asked, How was your sex life with Lil before you stopped drinking? BF said it was fine. I had to chime in and say, No, you're not remembering it the way it was...
Of course, he was drunk in the evenings 80 percent of the time, so that's HIS excuse.
I actually do have quite a bit of hope these days. Last night I told him I wanted to switch to the Scnarch-y C and he was perfectly fine with that. I do believe he wants this to improve, AND I do believe he has it in him.
It helps so much to share this info with others who really understand...
Oh yeah, I understand the motivation for leaving out that little detail
Sounds like a good opportunity for differentiation: "Well H, I'm going out for dinner. You can get a sitter and come with me or I'll find someone else (I'm sure Hairdog would be willing to have dinner) to dine with. Your choice." Just because it wasn't good for him doesn't mean it wasn't good for you, besides, he's not stuck at home all day with the wee ones. You go girl!
Lil, We were married for a bit over 3 yrs before we had our first, and like Mr HP, Mrs GGB's LD nature was already well established. She used to blame it on the kids, but I quickly called her on that. I Just didn't have the 'nads back then to put my foot down on the whole sex issue. It wasn't until I read TSSM that I realized that SSM is as common as it is, and that I might be able to do something about it. Before that, I had resigned myself to it being my lot in life. If you accept the SSM as unchangeable, then you really have only a few options to escape it: suicide, murder, insanity or divorce...none of which are the least bit palatable...well maybe divorce for someone who divorce is not morally wrong (that list wasn't mine, it was in the review of one of the books I was looking at before I found SSM). Considering that, I felt trapped and rather miserable even though other aspects of my M are/were reasonably good. I rarely even brought the sex issue up other than pestering her for some night after night until she gave in. Funny thing is W and I are fairly well differentiated in things other than sex.
Regarding the falling asleep issue, my guess is that you probably were too compassionate when the whole thing started, thinking that he was physically exhausted from work and cutting him some slack. Now you recognize there is a psychological component here, which I have learned doesn't get you anywhere to try to analyze ( okay, a little analysis...he needs to hold back on you to keep a sense of himself, or he needs to disappoint and see that you aren't the bad mommy, or...). The point is, you have to go back to a behavioral plan. Now that the baby is imminent you will have some time off from the sex, and it's a good chance to define what you need( as if you'll have the time, LOL). Establish in your mind a frequency that you can live with that is non- negotiable. If the falling asleep occurs during "extra" times it can be overlooked, but not if he is not maintaining the frequency that you both agree to. Then there is no compassion, and he has to be heavily confronted.
Just curious... what does he say the tiredness is all about? Do you ever confront him as it is happening? Another thing is...does he realize how abolutely awful you feel about this? Our C said that my H doesn't "hear" when my feelings are hurt( even when I think I am doing a good job communicating) and that I have to act like he is deaf and take a megaphone and sort of blast him.
Anyway...just some thoughts for you after the baby is born (I know you're a strong person but you may need more than the 3 minutes I originally gave you). You know my mantra right now is to just chill.
Glad the date was ok.
Can't wait to hear about the baby...hoping this 3rd one will go quicker! Hugggs to you HP! xoxo IHJ
Two night ago Wand I went out with S4 for a nice dinner. During the day I had called W and told her lets have fun after the S is asleep (yup went with direct approach per the lunch time thread). When she was getting ready for bed and the S was in bed but not yet sleeping, I had candles lit in the room, and turned on the movie 9 1/2 weeks (she told me that she finds this movie a bit erotic). laying in bed I reached over and started to rub her. I brought her to an O and then figuring it was my turn waiting for her to respond, nothing happening, she did roll towards me and we did ML, but not very satisfying.
The next night we (including S) were at a friends house, we came home well after S bed time, he went right to bed. We laid down in bed together and I waited for her to reach over, roll over, touch me, something. No initiation but worse no emotion at all. After 30 minutes or so I went to sleep. Was it conscious to do that, yeah I guess it was but I figured that it would possibly give her a message (kid stuff I know) or at least keep me from laying there getting more frustrated. I did wake up 30 minutes later and she was asleep, ended up staying awake half the night thinking.
